RedeyeAV8r

Sorry for Thread Drift but :
I think you a bit confused with terms.
Why would one have to retire Early to save a B-Plan?
DAL ,formerly, had a Large A-Plan or some call it a Defined Benefit Pension Plan. In the Pilot's Contract, ALPA did negotiate a Lump Sum option at retirement. This option allows Pilot to take a lump sum payout from the pension in lieu of lifetime annuity payouts. Just prior to and right at Delta's Chapter 11 filing, many senior Delta Pilots took this option a tad bit earlier. Maybe that it what you were trying to convey?

Another fact. ALPA didn't negotiate Retirement benefits away as you imply.
Actually,that is against ERISA LAW. No benefit, already earned, can be Negotiated away.

Another Fact: DAL's run through Chap 11 Bankruptcy was what caused the Pilot Pension to be distress terminated, just like USAir's and UAL's.
It was a "A Bankruptcy Judge",not ALPA, who terminated the Pilot Pension plan and handed it over to the PBGC.


So I'll fix your quote:
Hey dawg, The basic indoc instructor you are referring to is a Delta Captain with a career full of experience before he retired to save his valued "A" plan that Delta Management and a Bankruptcy Judge Stole from the Delta Pilots during Chapter 11 proceedings.

Gunter

Funny how this is getting so muddled in younger pilots' minds. Most don't care to get the facts.

Another way to look at it is the $2Bil+ early retiring Deltoids took out helped Delta go BK. Even if you think they contributed to the BK the ship was headed in that direction and you couldn't turn it.

Can't say I blame them for retiring early. It's good they had that option on the eve of BK. Management's compensation scheme gives them that sort of flexibility so we should have it too.

RedeyeAV8r

Actually, it was the fact that Delta Management didn't properly fund the Pilot's Pension Plan. Bankruptcy was merely a tool that management used to shed the Billions they owed the Pilots, and other employees as it was at USAir and UAL.
Management just used the excuse that pilots lumping out, caused it. A lie. Prior to 2000, Delta still had Pilots retiring with Lump sums and it was never an issue. Pension Funds were supposed to be a separate Pot of money.

When DAL Pilots began to retire in droves, more of them were certainly opting for the lump sum option. As they felt getting something was better than little or nothing (PBGC $2700/month).Those guys still lost \ because the lump sum was a fraction of what their DB annuity was worth. (Usually it is a 50% hit) Many Pilots were also electing to retire early, 55-59 which further cut into what they were contractually Promised.

The PBGC got wise to this Management tactic and didn't allow further Distress terminations as with NWA, CAL and more recently American. Those Pensions were Frozen and thus Pilots at least get what they had earned up to that point.

Albief15

Pensions are not "benefits", they are deferred compensation. If you worked at McDonalds for 9 bucks an hour, and after three months the boss came in and said "we overpaid you. We only are going to pay you 7 bucks an hour retroactive to when you started. We'll start docking your pay 4 bucks an hour to offset the overpayment…" there would be blood in the streets. Yet the same thing is happening to a lot of people in this country, including pilots.

That money was THEIRS. They weren't "greedy". They didn't' drive the company into bankruptcy. Their salary was stolen and mismanaged.

FDXLAG

I believe the NW pensions were frozen in Jan 2006 and Delta Pilots lost theirs in Jun 2006. The NW Pilots negotiated their freeze. Which was a very good thing for the pilots already retired.

4A2B

Pilots already retired could not have their plan changed, the only way to do that is through a PBGC transfer.

FDXLAG

Which makes not going to the PBGC via a negotiated freeze a very good thing, at least in this instance, for those pilots.

RedeyeAV8r

I am not sure of my accuracy on the dates, but I think DAL filed for Chapter 11 in Sept 2005 and NWA filed very shortly their after.

Maybe NWA Pension was better funded or maybe it was because all employees were union (Pilots. FAs. CSA's ,Mech and rammers)
I believe (not 100% sure) NWA terminated all Employee Pensions.

I think in DAL's case, again not 100% sure, but I think MGT only Distress terminated the Pilot Pension and not other employees, as they were the only Union.

In any case, it was a screw job for those involved.

L'il J.Seinfeld

Yet there are bankruptcy judges who disagree with you.

4A2B

got ya, yes I agree with that. I thought you were referring to simple bargaining not as compared to going PBGC. Same page are us