It's a very well written and accurate article though.

I agree, not bad. But his career at the Washington Post is now toast.

Haha. They quoted an anonymous user on a public message board as a source employee...

Since most everything shipped by Amazon is in Amazon labeled boxes, it would be kinda hard to keep secret who "Aerosmith" is.

Yeah but he identified the source and said the person claims to be from Amazon-

"October, somebody claiming to work for Amazon posted on a pilot forum saying the company is working on a secretive air delivery operation––the next step toward replacing UPS and other shipping partners with a homegrown solution."

Totally accurate reporting!

ATI???????

"Disclosure: Jeff Bezos is an investor in Business Insider through his personal investment company Bezos Expeditions."

And if there really are non-disclosure agreements involved the starter of this threads at Amazon may be as well.

Maybe somebody can draw pictures for a slow learner then because I just don’t see it. By any GAAP measure, direct comparison FedEx v. Amazon reveals why Aerosmith is an ongoing concept of interest for what is now America’s highest- market cap-retailer, makes perfect sense. They want; they must, attack their biggest expense hurdle. Yet fulfillment, at its heart, turns on delivering each tangible good here to there, yes? Beyond software development, beyond even the most advanced drawing board automated processes & warehouse tech, there stands old school transportation Sir. There stands labor. Welcome to the doghouse Bezer…good luck.

deleted...

Amazon Drone

https://youtu.be/MXo_d6tNWuY

Just flew my first Aerosmith flight. It went smoothly with good loading and unloading and a decent load. It was nice to fly coast to coast!

What pilot group is contracted for this project? Where can one apply?

ABX Air and ATI, the contract is through their parent company ATSG. I suspect both airlines will be hiring in the Spring.

Smart move by Bezos
 

FDX and UPS are an oligopoly and can basically charge whatever they want. Bezos's move is called vertical integration. I foresee the delivery service moving from a cost center to a profit center.

Certainly good news for anyone at ATSG, but I've been wondering what the long term potential is for any new hires going forward with any carrier associated with this. Life certainly turned out well for guys carrying freight for Brown when it was all brought in house.

Also interesting is that the OP hasn't posted in a month.

Bezos had him whacked.

Yep, just as soon as the union, Teamsters 1224, and the company can rid themselves of those pesky furloughees!

ATN and ABX Flights out of ILN
 

Flight Aware confirms 2 ATN and 2 ABX flights out of KILN with 3xxx flight numbers; ATN going to KABE, KDFW; ABX going to KONT, KTPA....all at regular frequency since 02/03 Dec.

go back 2.5 years...a plain-clothed individual steps out of a personal vehicle in my driveway, trots to me on my lawn tractor in the deep corner of my property. I power down to hear him as he hands me a package I ordered a couple days prior. I asked who he was with, if it was UPS....nope, he explained that he's an Amazon employee on his way home from work and happened to see my package passing through, decided to hand-deliver; sort facility about an hour away.

I'm sorry but I do not believe that story. More so if it were to be true there's bigger issues I have problems with (safety, security, liability etc etc).

I have no reason to lie to you, heck I don't even know you so don't be sorry. I might not believe it either had I not lived it, but none-the-less--true story. At the time it took a few minutes to really sink in that it wasn't a commercial delivery service, but with motor running I returned to cutting the grass and popping a cold one to the setting sun!

So far, little more than a branding head fake…bb shot across an eyebrow window at best. Stealthy conquest of the big 2, in what kind of wet dream does that work?

Yea, I mean the established players never lose their way or falter. Just look at Sears, Woolworth's, USPS, Pan Am, Oldsmobile, Lehman Brothers, US Steel......I mean you'd think Amazon would know better than to try.

Good point. All I’m suggesting is; it can’t be done in secret and it can’t be done overnight. WAG? A series of moves underway to ramp up pressure on highly profitable delivery providers who are perceived to have them by the short hairs.

There is PLENTY of Amazon volume to go around.

I'd also guess that margins on Amazon parcels are pretty low for that reason.

It makes good business sense for Amazon to diversify their delivery vendors and to seek lower delivery costs. If they can spin up their own air delivery service using ATSG and accomplish both objectives then good for them - but I don't see them going away from third-party shippers for bulk movement and home delivery any year soon and I certainly don't see them challenging third-party shippers for outside business. Package delivery isn't web/cloud hosting - it is MUCH more capital/labor/regulation intensive and a far stretch from Amazon's core businesses.

But I've been wrong before...

Not really a good point. A quick google search of U.S. companies older than 100 years will put things back in perspective.

Amazon going into logistics/express deliver/freight would be the equivalent of Apple going into the ISP business, Starbucks growing its own coffee, Budweiser getting into the bar and restaurant market, etc. Do they just lack the genius of Bezos to do so? Amazon's foray into shipping is like Delta's into oil, a cost reducing strategy.

[EXCLUSIVE] Amazon building its own overnight airfreight operation, sources say | Cargo Facts

Where do we apply :D

Countless numbers of startup outfits have tried and FAILED in the last 25 years. ALMOST NONE of them are still around today. Many of them sounded like good business ideas ... in the end, none of that mattered. Bezos is a pretty smart guy! Is he smart enough?

Good luck!


:eek:

Pretty sure Amazon isn't a startup, neither was Brown when they decided to get in the air freight business.

Does that guarantee their success? Of course not, but calling Amazon a startup is a little disingenuous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yet another good point:) Budweiser is AmBev now btw. Watched a guy off load cases of beer last week from a table at a pizza joint. Big guy, lots of beer & wine, hard work. Point is really, nobody gets a pass from the cost of moving things. Nor should they.

I smell a $.
 

Get a 135 certificate, some C208's. Start hauling cargo regional.
Present a plan to Jeff.
Get a contract or sell out.

Retire to Maui.:cool:

Cargo Facts

@CargoFacts@CargoFacts
Cargo FactsCargo Facts

Details on how Amazon will build its overnight air venture DECEMBER 17, 2015
BY DAVID HARRIS

News of the ramping up of an Amazon logistics unit comes in the wake of something of an open secret that the e-commerce giant is conducting a trial air operation in the US, in partnership with Air Transport Services Group Inc, a publicly traded airfreight company. Less commonly known is that Amazon has been running more than one such operation – there is also one based at Seattle’s Boeing Field (BFI), serving a set of destinations in the Western US.
Amazon appears to be pleased with the trials, because several independent sources have confirmed to Cargo Facts that Amazon has made the decision to launch the overnight air operations, beginning with acquisition of a fleet of 767 freighters.
Amazon’s progress toward a full overnight air venture has taken what appears to be a methodical approach. The efforts started with its involvement with ATSG.
During a conference call in early November, following publication of Air Transport Services Group’s third-quarter results, CEO Joe Hete commented on the subject of managing express networks for customers, saying: “The trial ACMI express network that we launched in September for a US customer has been performing well. It started with two of our 767s and a sort operation here in Wilmington and will grow to five aircraft next week.”
Since that time, ATSG has declined to comment further, but both the air freight and express industry and the investment community, as well as the the tech media, have identified the mystery ATSG customer as e-commerce giant Amazon. We published an analysis of the Wilmington-based operation two weeks ago.
Since then Amazon has amped up its logistics efforts, source say.
First, it appears that, in addition to the Wilmington operation with ATSG, Amazon also set up a small air express trial based at Seattle’s King County International Airport (BFI, more commonly known as Boeing Field), using a 737 freighter operated by Northern Air Cargo on a triangular route connecting Seattle, San Bernardino (close to a large Amazon fulfillment center), and the small city of Boise (population 215,000) in Western Idaho.
Second, Cargo Facts has learned that Amazon is now committed to launching its own-controlled US domestic express operation, beginning with the acquisition of a fleet of twenty 767-300 freighters. None of the parties involved has been willing to comment on the record, and Cargo Facts has not been able to confirm the reports independently, but here is what we have learned so far:
Amazon is attempting to acquire 20 767-300Fs over the next three years. (One source says “up to forty,” but that may be over a longer time period.) Amazon is apparently talking to Boeing about acquiring and/or converting the widebodys.
Everyone with a US Air Operator Certificate is scrambling for a piece of Amazon’s 767 action. None have openly said “We plan to operate these airplanes for Amazon,” but…
o Kalitta Air: Kalitta, which until now has been a 747-only freighter operator, bought two 767-300s and is having them converted to BDSF freighter configuration at the Bedek Aviation Group facility in Tel Aviv. CEO Conrad Kalitta said he planned to add “five or six more” in the future. When asked what had led him to add the new type to his fleet, he said “I think these aircraft will work perfectly for DHL support,” but Kalitta has since made clear that DHL is just one possible customer, and that “nothing is definitive yet.”
o Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings: Atlas recently acquired two 767-300s and has had them converted to BDSF freighter configuration by Bedek. Atlas has said the two will be leased to DHL, but Cargo Facts believes Atlas is also in the process of buying two more 767-300s, and may be looking for as many as six more beyond that.
o Air Transport Services Group: Like Kalitta and Atlas, ATSG does a significant amount of flying for DHL, but given that it has been Amazon’s partner in the trial, and that it has extensive experience in the operation of a major sortation facility, it is an obvious partner in any future Amazon air operation. So rumors that it, too, is on the hunt for 767 aircraft, are not surprising.
Amazon’s reported negotiations with Boeing regarding production freighters comes with some complications. Boeing’s 767 line is solidly booked into the far future with orders from FedEx and the US Air Force, but Cargo Facts sources say it may be possible to open a few production slots for Amazon each year. Negotiations are apparently ongoing.
Aside from acquiring feedstock, anyone who hopes to fly for Amazon must find conversion slots, and this may be an equally challenging problem, as the only two sources of 767 passenger-to-freighter conversions – Boeing and IAI/Bedek – are booked well into next year. Whether either of them would consider opening a new line is unknown, but it is a possibility, given sufficient demand
Amazon has hired a significant number of new staff in the last year with experience in transportation and logistics.
So where does all of the above leave us? Cargo Facts believes that a likely plan for setting up an own-controlled US domestic air network will start with ACMI-leasing freighters from carriers such as those mentioned above (and perhaps others), with the freighters operating out of a hub at Wilmington. This location served as DHL’s hub during its short-lived attempt to enter the US domestic market some years ago. This ACMI phase would be followed by a move to purchase or dry-lease freighters, and have them operated on a CMI basis, the cheapest alternative for a company with Amazon’s financial leverage.
And in the long run? Will Amazon eventually acquire its own AOC, and launch “Amazon Airlines?” We don’t know, but considering that Amazon is currently sitting on more than $3 billion of cash, we wouldn’t bet against it.

ups has to be the only business that drives Thier employees to drink and Thier business partners and customers to start Thier own operations. ;);)

I believe there is a fairly new unused sort facility in Fort Wayne that $hitty Hawk used to operate. And, Dayton (DFO)is still unused I think.
The big problem is, there are just NOT enough qualified pilots out there.
Drones still require at least one driver of sorts. That won't happen in my life time on any type of large scale.

When the labor costs in china got too high, factories went to Cambodia, Bangladesh and so forth.

Just a few disconnected thoughts with my morning coffee.........

Did you really spell "their" wrong three times? Can you not even sound the word out? :confused:

Seems like a lot of pilots here are negative about Amazon having their own overnight freighter operation.

Mom would say, "If you are not part of the steam-roller then you are part of the pavement."

Let's not forget that DHL invested $10 billion trying to break into the US domestic market, and ended up walking away pretty much empty handed. It takes a ton of money to do it wrong, and a lot more to do it right.

Or just a better business plan....