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Old 12-24-2016, 09:09 PM   #11  
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There is a lot of potential at ABX, but if you are looking to get away from petty management... it is not the place to do it.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:54 PM   #12  
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Originally Posted by EPICguy View Post
This may be the wrong venue, but I am trying to make the best decision possible using all available resources. That being said, here goes.....

My situation:

I was just offered a class date with ABX. I am currently a sim check airman with a large regional airline. Schedules are great, money is also pretty good (most of us PC guys made north of $200K in 2016), and I live in base. However, the management are backstabbing, untrustworthy, stereotypical people who are out to fire every one of us. So, who knows how long this gravy train will last.

Question:

Am I way off for even considering making a switch? Or is it a really good time to get in with ABX? I have at least 25 yrs left, not that I want to work that much longer.

Honest opinions are appreciated.

Merry Christmas and thanks in advance!
Management is like that everywhere for the most part.

Hold out for one of the big 4 passenger carriers or the two cargos where there's a better chance that you'll have some semblance of stability and potential for career earnings to make up for the massive pay cut you infer that you'd be taking.
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:23 AM   #13  
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I think you would do better to stay where you are and wait for one of the big ones to call, honestly. But that's just my opinion and take it for what it's worth. You really have to decide for yourself.

I came here cause they were the first ones to call and I was in between jobs, just contracting myself out. Now that I'm here I see the potential for it to either become something great or stay status quo. It's a crap shoot.

I really like it here but if a major called, I'd bolt in a heart beat. Problem for me is that a major isn't banging down my door. No degree, lots of time (read to much experience apparently now a days) and a lot of back and for over the years between airline and corporate, make for a not so desirable resume. I've had a great 20 plus years so far but my résumé is a bit scattered.

After a year here, I'll make good money again and becasue of the older pilot group here, upgrade shouldn't be more than 5 years away if not less. If I were to go to a major now at 45, I think I'd be lucky enough to see the left seat for the last few years of my career.

You sound like you have a much more solid resume and should be a shoe in for the top choice players. Good luck in which ever direction you choose.
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Old 12-25-2016, 10:36 AM   #14  
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I really appreciate the feedback.

Jason605, how are the schedules? There are so many things I have questions about and pros/cons I have to weigh. I certainly don't want to be making multiple job switches, but it seems the consensus is that I should hold out.

My resume is diverse but I am a staunch opponent of job fairs, etc. I totally agree that us high time guys are for some reason "un-hireable". Since when did experience become detrimental to a career? I have an aircraft maintenance background, currently a Director of MX for a 135 operation, have flown corporate 91/135, management, CKA, helicopters.... No idea why I can't get a call. Maybe it's because I refuse to pay $400 to go stand in line with 10,000 other people begging for a job. If that's what it takes, I guess I will be at a "Regional" (since when did 1800 nm legs constitute regional?!?) forever.

Thanks again for all the input, guys.
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:03 PM   #15  
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I really appreciate the feedback.

Jason605, how are the schedules? There are so many things I have questions about and pros/cons I have to weigh. I certainly don't want to be making multiple job switches, but it seems the consensus is that I should hold out.

My resume is diverse but I am a staunch opponent of job fairs, etc. I totally agree that us high time guys are for some reason "un-hireable". Since when did experience become detrimental to a career? I have an aircraft maintenance background, currently a Director of MX for a 135 operation, have flown corporate 91/135, management, CKA, helicopters.... No idea why I can't get a call. Maybe it's because I refuse to pay $400 to go stand in line with 10,000 other people begging for a job. If that's what it takes, I guess I will be at a "Regional" (since when did 1800 nm legs constitute regional?!?) forever.

Thanks again for all the input, guys.
Sent you a PM
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:50 PM   #16  
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I totally agree that us high time guys are for some reason "un-hireable". Since when did experience become detrimental to a career?
I had over 11,000 hours when hired by UAL. High-time guy in my class was over 14,000. Oldest, 49. I know quite a few other high-time (>10,000) new-hires here.
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Old 12-26-2016, 12:09 AM   #17  
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...but it seems the consensus is that I should hold out.
You should do what you want to do. If you would rather be flying a 767 than an RJ, you'll do that at ABX. You could do that at another airline, too...if they ever call.

Quote:
My resume is diverse but I am a staunch opponent of job fairs, etc.
As am I. But I played the game all the same for the last three years, punching up my résumé with "community involvement" and all of that extracurricular stuff they want you to have. It got me nowhere. I have multiple internal recommendations at my first choice legacy airline, introductions to base chief pilots, and lots of, "You have everything we're looking for. Just keep doing what you're doing." The only thing that got me was three years older and no better off than I was before.

So I broadened my horizons, and ABX called. And I didn't jump. I did eventually go for an interview and thought about what I would do if I got the job - whether it would be worth what I was giving up. For me, it probably means a really lean year with potential for a lot more. I get experience that I wouldn't get by following the advice to keep doing what I'm doing.

My admittedly limited impression of ABX is this: There are good people there. When good people get together, they usually have a good time, even if conditions are less than ideal. There is friction between labor and management. OK, so what's new? Show me a place where that isn't the case. They don't play interview games. The system chief pilot at the legacy I referenced earlier has said that when you interview, you should be able to identify the key management personnel, list the company's core values, and talk about your community involvement. It just occurred to me a few days ago that when I interviewed, I didn't think about any of that stuff, and they didn't ask. They are looking for people who can get the job done. Legacies are looking for mannequins to dress their windows in television ads.

Now it could be that I've got it all wrong. I am, after all, a new hire half way through initial training, although I'm hardly new to the up-and-down business of aviation. I am not some bright-eyed junior bird man pursuing his dream, but I do have a lot invested in making this work because I left a pretty good gig. But I also wasn't going to achieve my goals there, either, and I certainly wasn't going to get there waiting for a call that's never coming. I'm a lot closer at ABX, whether it's sunshine and daisies on the ramp every day or not. If the call ever does come, I can decide what to do then. In the meantime, I'm done standing still.

Take that for what it's worth (considering what you paid for it), figure out what you want, and then do it.

Last edited by Reactivity; 12-26-2016 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 12-26-2016, 04:15 AM   #18  
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Sounds like my story - good for you...

At the end of the day... a step in the right direction is just that... it's closer to your goal, and it's not standing still.
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Old 12-26-2016, 04:28 AM   #19  
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I had over 11,000 hours when hired by UAL. High-time guy in my class was over 14,000. Oldest, 49. I know quite a few other high-time (>10,000) new-hires here.
Great.... So it's something else than that the majors don't like about me. Lol
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Old 12-26-2016, 04:28 AM   #20  
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You should do what you want to do. If you would rather be flying a 767 than an RJ, you'll do that at ABX. You could do that at another airline, too...if they ever call.



As am I. But I played the game all the same for the last three years, punching up my résumé with "community involvement" and all of that extracurricular stuff they want you to have. It got me nowhere. I have multiple internal recommendations at my first choice legacy airline, introductions to base chief pilots, and lots of, "You have everything we're looking for. Just keep doing what you're doing." The only thing that got me was three years older and no better off than I was before.

So I broadened my horizons, and ABX called. And I didn't jump. I did eventually go for an interview and thought about what I would do if I got the job - whether it would be worth what I was giving up. For me, it probably means a really lean year with potential for a lot more. I get experience that I wouldn't get by following the advice to keep doing what I'm doing.

My admittedly limited impression of ABX is this: There are good people there. When good people get together, they usually have a good time, even if conditions are less than ideal. There is friction between labor and management. OK, so what's new? Show me a place where that isn't the case. They don't play interview games. The system chief pilot at the legacy I referenced earlier has said that when you interview, you should be able to identify the key management personnel, list the company's core values, and talk about your community involvement. It just occurred to me a few days ago that when I interviewed, I didn't think about any of that stuff, and they didn't ask. They are looking for people who can get the job done. Legacies are looking for mannequins to dress their windows in television ads.

Now it could be that I've got it all wrong. I am, after all, a new hire half way through initial training, although I'm hardly new to the up-and-down business of aviation. I am not some bright-eyed junior bird man pursuing his dream, but I do have a lot invested in making this work because I left a pretty good gig. But I also wasn't going to achieve my goals there, either, and I certainly wasn't going to get there waiting for a call that's never coming. I'm a lot closer at ABX, whether it's sunshine and daisies on the ramp every day or not. If the call ever does come, I can decide what to do then. In the meantime, I'm done standing still.

Take that for what it's worth (considering what you paid for it), figure out what you want, and then do it.
Excellent post!
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