Atlas Interview Dec 1,2 and forward
03-09-2018, 05:57 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by RyeMex
I really am not a pessimist. In fact, I came to atlas with the plan that it would be my career airline.
That being said, we are, at a minimum, likely 2 years away from a contract. And the likelihood that it will be a contract through amalgamation, which means that the pilot group will have no vote and no say in the matter, is extremely high.
Add on top of that the fact that there are a very large number of people coming through training who are being failed and fired. More than I thought that we’d ever see. Do you really want to have to explain a 121 pink slip at your next interview?
Every single person I know who has been here for more than 6 months is doing everything that they possibly can to leave (and that’s because it will be 4 month from date of hire until you start OE, all the while earning $1,600/month). The guys who came here before they got 1,000 hours of TPIC are absolutely kicking themselves because that means that they are stuck here. And even when you eventually upgrade you will log, at most, 300 hours a year.
Don’t dig yourself into a hole that you can’t get out of by coming here.
This place could have been a great airline, but it isn’t. And it won’t be.
That being said, we are, at a minimum, likely 2 years away from a contract. And the likelihood that it will be a contract through amalgamation, which means that the pilot group will have no vote and no say in the matter, is extremely high.
Add on top of that the fact that there are a very large number of people coming through training who are being failed and fired. More than I thought that we’d ever see. Do you really want to have to explain a 121 pink slip at your next interview?
Every single person I know who has been here for more than 6 months is doing everything that they possibly can to leave (and that’s because it will be 4 month from date of hire until you start OE, all the while earning $1,600/month). The guys who came here before they got 1,000 hours of TPIC are absolutely kicking themselves because that means that they are stuck here. And even when you eventually upgrade you will log, at most, 300 hours a year.
Don’t dig yourself into a hole that you can’t get out of by coming here.
This place could have been a great airline, but it isn’t. And it won’t be.
And this whole “stepping stone” thing is crap. You have no guarantee you’ll get hired anywhere as plenty of Atlas pilots who are helplessly watching regional FOs get hired at Delta can attest to.
03-12-2018, 01:53 PM
#92
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 84
To add to the whole stepping stone shiney jet philosophy, in 10 years of ACMI flying I have flown 2,600 hours. 260hrs per year average. There is a 6 month furlough in there but call it 300. You will not build time fast at Atlas or any ACMI. Lots of commercial flights, dead heading, sitting in hotels for no reason and being gone for extraordinary low pay.
03-12-2018, 02:31 PM
#93
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by 5Ypilot
To add to the whole stepping stone shiney jet philosophy, in 10 years of ACMI flying I have flown 2,600 hours. 260hrs per year average. There is a 6 month furlough in there but call it 300. You will not build time fast at Atlas or any ACMI. Lots of commercial flights, dead heading, sitting in hotels for no reason and being gone for extraordinary low pay.
03-14-2018, 05:06 AM
#95
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 89
https://twitter.com/giantcomms/statu...19623899033601
"***ATLAS & SOUTHERN CREW******* Full text of the summary judgement regarding the venue where the AMALGAMATION argument will happen is posted to Giant Comms page on FaceBook. #1u #FUPM #ShameOnAtlas""
I can't find their FB page to see the full text of the summary judgment. Could someone please post the text here?
"***ATLAS & SOUTHERN CREW******* Full text of the summary judgement regarding the venue where the AMALGAMATION argument will happen is posted to Giant Comms page on FaceBook. #1u #FUPM #ShameOnAtlas""
I can't find their FB page to see the full text of the summary judgment. Could someone please post the text here?
Last edited by kolt66; 03-14-2018 at 05:19 AM.
03-14-2018, 05:45 AM
#97
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by NoJoy
Link doesn't work. See FB.
Giant Comms
Giant Comms
Last edited by kolt66; 03-14-2018 at 06:11 AM.
03-14-2018, 07:19 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by kolt66
The twitter link works just fine but I can't find the FB page. It looks like it's a FB group but I don't have FB and can't access it. That's why I'm asking for someone to please copy and paste the text of the "Full text of the summary judgement" here.
All that is confusing so I'll just break down what it means... It means that the Atlas/Southern Pilot NC and Company are so far apart on what they think the new work rules should be that it will all likely go to arbitration. Getting to that point will take several years.
Once we get to Arbitration we can expect that the company's argument will be what it was last time in Arbitration. The company will likely argue that the court is bound by the limits of the Southern Bankruptcy Contract and the Atlas/Polar Merged contracts and win. SO... The best you will see is current Atlas Book on Work Rules and retirement. There's even the possibility that the rates could be current book or even less if they end up in Arbitration. Atlas's current work rules/retirement are some of the worst in aviation and will be merged with Southern's Bankruptcy rules that are even worse.
You will not get to vote on the TA when it comes to determine if it compensates you what you're worth. It will be dictated to you by an Arbitrator. There will be no possibility of Self Help either. Those are at least 10 years away now. If you've got 20 years left that's 50% of your career. If you accept a job at Omni, Kalitta, Alegient, Spirit, or ATI they've got new contracts and are closer to voting on a new TA than Atlas.
This is not bias. It is fact. If you choose to come here expect a new contract 3 years from now and very few gains (if any). We were all sent a letter by management less than 2 years ago bragging that they gave Atlas a 10% pay raise in the last contract. Ask yourself... Is a 10% raise 2 or 3 years from now in exchange for a 5 year contract enough to support your family and pay off the debts you've incurred getting your ratings and fighting up the ranks of lesser airlines? That's your decision.
03-14-2018, 07:39 AM
#99
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Globemaster2827
It's 22 pages but the long and short of it is this... The issue as to whether we will merge (amalgamate... whatever) the Southern Bankruptcy Contract and Atlas/Polar Merger Contract goes to a Management Grievance where it will likely end up in Step 3 Arbitration. That process will probably take the rest of 2018 to resolve. Maybe longer.
All that is confusing so I'll just break down what it means... It means that the Atlas/Southern Pilot NC and Company are so far apart on what they think the new work rules should be that it will all likely go to arbitration. Getting to that point will take several years.
Once we get to Arbitration we can expect that the company's argument will be what it was last time in Arbitration. The company will likely argue that the court is bound by the limits of the Southern Bankruptcy Contract and the Atlas/Polar Merged contracts and win. SO... The best you will see is current Atlas Book on Work Rules and retirement. There's even the possibility that the rates could be current book or even less if they end up in Arbitration. Atlas's current work rules/retirement are some of the worst in aviation and will be merged with Southern's Bankruptcy rules that are even worse.
You will not get to vote on the TA when it comes to determine if it compensates you what you're worth. It will be dictated to you by an Arbitrator. There will be no possibility of Self Help either. Those are at least 10 years away now. If you've got 20 years left that's 50% of your career. If you accept a job at Omni, Kalitta, Alegient, Spirit, or ATI they've got new contracts and are closer to voting on a new TA than Atlas.
This is not bias. It is fact. If you choose to come here expect a new contract 3 years from now and very few gains (if any). We were all sent a letter by management less than 2 years ago bragging that they gave Atlas a 10% pay raise in the last contract. Ask yourself... Is a 10% raise 2 or 3 years from now in exchange for a 5 year contract enough to support your family and pay off the debts you've incurred getting your ratings and fighting up the ranks of lesser airlines? That's your decision.
All that is confusing so I'll just break down what it means... It means that the Atlas/Southern Pilot NC and Company are so far apart on what they think the new work rules should be that it will all likely go to arbitration. Getting to that point will take several years.
Once we get to Arbitration we can expect that the company's argument will be what it was last time in Arbitration. The company will likely argue that the court is bound by the limits of the Southern Bankruptcy Contract and the Atlas/Polar Merged contracts and win. SO... The best you will see is current Atlas Book on Work Rules and retirement. There's even the possibility that the rates could be current book or even less if they end up in Arbitration. Atlas's current work rules/retirement are some of the worst in aviation and will be merged with Southern's Bankruptcy rules that are even worse.
You will not get to vote on the TA when it comes to determine if it compensates you what you're worth. It will be dictated to you by an Arbitrator. There will be no possibility of Self Help either. Those are at least 10 years away now. If you've got 20 years left that's 50% of your career. If you accept a job at Omni, Kalitta, Alegient, Spirit, or ATI they've got new contracts and are closer to voting on a new TA than Atlas.
This is not bias. It is fact. If you choose to come here expect a new contract 3 years from now and very few gains (if any). We were all sent a letter by management less than 2 years ago bragging that they gave Atlas a 10% pay raise in the last contract. Ask yourself... Is a 10% raise 2 or 3 years from now in exchange for a 5 year contract enough to support your family and pay off the debts you've incurred getting your ratings and fighting up the ranks of lesser airlines? That's your decision.
Practically every other airline is a better option at this point and will be a better choice for years to come.
03-14-2018, 09:42 AM
#100
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 97
Key in all of this is to pay attention to their ACTUAL actions & learn to ignore (or at minimum, take with a huge box of salt) grandiose claims & promises being tossed about during job fairs, interviews and the ever present rumor balloons constantly being floated from the training center.
The multiple lawsuits against the pilots, the attempts to re-open and alter the current CBA through appealing to the old arbitrator, willfully violating/ignoring the current CBA on a constant basis out on the line, refusal to negotiate when and how they had originally promised as well as the later "framework" agreement, going around the union making baseless claims that the union is lying "to us" while simultaneously misrepresenting where we currently are in said framework agreement, taking hostages & suspending of crew members, lowering/eliminating catering standards, demanding not only "current book" (ie-ancient and previously amalgamated cab) but also concessions -- should speak volumes regarding their true intentions.
Everything else is unicorn rainbow farts.
Don't reward bad behavior.
This is after all, the same company that sued the widow of a crew member that died during a trip, for their paltry 401k money. A multi-billion dollar global airline that sues a widow? Or did that not get mentioned at the job fair?
The multiple lawsuits against the pilots, the attempts to re-open and alter the current CBA through appealing to the old arbitrator, willfully violating/ignoring the current CBA on a constant basis out on the line, refusal to negotiate when and how they had originally promised as well as the later "framework" agreement, going around the union making baseless claims that the union is lying "to us" while simultaneously misrepresenting where we currently are in said framework agreement, taking hostages & suspending of crew members, lowering/eliminating catering standards, demanding not only "current book" (ie-ancient and previously amalgamated cab) but also concessions -- should speak volumes regarding their true intentions.
Everything else is unicorn rainbow farts.
Don't reward bad behavior.
This is after all, the same company that sued the widow of a crew member that died during a trip, for their paltry 401k money. A multi-billion dollar global airline that sues a widow? Or did that not get mentioned at the job fair?
Last edited by Crusoe; 03-14-2018 at 09:56 AM.
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