veewan

Seriously how little research do they think pilots do? Have they not heard of Airline Pilot Central and the fact that everyone's pay is broken down with a tool that helps you calculate how much you will make? Not to mention some of the work rules that each airline has, and some of their incentives. At least be honest about what you are selling. We are a west coast airline with decent pay and decent work rules.

For those of you who have not looked at the other regional airline's pay scales lets start with Compass as our baseline assessment. Then see what other regionals are offering.

Compass Airlines:
First year FO: $36/hr CA: $67/hr
Second year FO: $37/hr CA:$69/hr
Third year FO: $40/hr CA:$72/hr

Staying out west, we will compare with Horizon:
First year FO: $31/hr CA: $70/hr
Second year FO: $42/hr CA:$72/hr
Third year FO: $43/hr CA:$74/hr

Next for out west, lets compare to SkyWest:
Different AC pay CRJ900/E175&CRJ 700/CRJ200
First year FO: $37/37/37 per hr CA: $67/66/62 per hr
Second year FO: $41/41/38 per hr CA:$70/69/65 per hr
Third year FO: $44/43/41 per hr CA:$73/72/68 per hr
Plus a signing bonus of $7500 paid on completion of IOE

Moving east, Envoy:
Different AC pay X/Y/Z
First year FO: $38/hr CA: $68/68/65 per hr
Second year FO: $40/hr CA:$70/70/67 per hr
Third year FO: $41/hr CA:$73/73/69 per hr
Plus a signing bonus of $22,100 AND a $20,000 retention bonus paid over the course of 2 years.
Second year FO is actually paid at year 4 pay of $42/hour

Next Air Wisconsin:
First year FO: $35/hr CA: $66/hr
Second year FO: $41/hr CA:$69/hr
Third year FO: $43/hr CA:$72/hr
Retention bonuses being offered for pilots currently on property

$33,000 sign on bonus. Highest in the industry. First installment of $15,000 to be paid upon completion of IOE. Second installment of $10,000 to be paid 12 months after completion of IOE. The remaining $8,000 is to be paid out quarterly throughout year 3 of employment as an FO.

veewan

Recruiting for Compass is going to be a hard job. Who's going to come to Compass for top tier pay, when other regional airlines are paying more per hour (and bonuses​), offering similar upgrade times etc. I think at this point it's only going to be people that are interested in LAX and SEA... That don't go to SkyWest or Horizon.

TillerTemptress

I think you're underestimating how many people want LAX/SEA, sadly.
Comparing to other 175 operators that aren't throwing out some huge retention bonus for a reason (ie skywest), our pay is pretty close to Skywest, minus the bonus. And the upgrade time at CPZ for west coast bases is far better than Skywest's. At Skywest it could take awhile just to hold SEA as an FO, even, their SEA CA upgrade time on the 175 is years longer than ours and will stay that way for awhile.

poorflyer

That's true but there's people at Skywest getting lax and sfo in the 175 right out of training though. So it's hard for us to compete with that. I can see SEA being a bigger selling point but it's not that big of a base. If Compass gets higher attrition it will be a better choice for west coasters but it's till a risky move especially with what's been happening recently, whereas Skywest may be a more stable choice while waiting for a call from the majors while in LA.

veewan

I think you may be right that I am underestimating how much people would rather have LAX/SEA. Like you say our pay itself is CLOSE, but it is not top tier.

SkyWest pays their retention bonuses in the form of pilot profit sharing. They get 4 quarterly bonuses, plus 2 pilot profit sharing checks.

Next saying pay is pretty close minus the bonus ignores how that hourly rate is paid. Or the bonuses available.

SkyWest offers trip rig of 1 hour credit for each 4 hours time away from base.

Per diem is $1.90 at other airlines vs our $1.65- for the first 24 months with an incremental step until 60 months (over the course of 24 hours that is $6) if a 4 day was away from base 74 hours, that would be $888 more per year just in per diem.

Next is deadhead, we are paying 80% vs other airlines 100% (even Trans States is paying 100% DH).

Critical pay: here it's 1.25, TSA is offering 1.5

Add in union dues and you can knock down all Compass rates by 2%. Second year FO at Compass becomes $37.74 after union dues. Which SkyWest is not paying.

Min day at SkyWest is 4.2 hours credit with a guarantee of 76 hours, which means a reserve only works 18 days (13/12 days off on reserve) vs Compass reserve min day of 3.5 hours and 75 hours guarantee getting (12/11 days off).

My point is how can we claim top teir pay when we are not paying it?

Also it tells you how management thinks if they feel what is being offered is top teir. Are they going to do what happened last time and offer a bonus when they come up short on talent, or are they going to try and do something sooner (offer to get ALPA in sooner than the amendable date)?

LGARunway44

Yeah, misleading but I think one could make an argument that bonuses could be considered compensation and not necessarily in the pay category. Most of the places offering a bonus had to hit bottom before they offered said bonus. A bonus is still against the CP contract; however pay can be raised automatically whenever needed up to $41 for first year.

Endeavor alienated their FO's with the ETD program, which caused those pilots to bail at high numbers until the SSP was offered and the retention bonus. PSA started offering when recruiting became difficult, Air Wisconsin had a questionable future.

What Compass does offer is a lot of movement and only a handful of lifers. Get in, pad your resume and get out. Much more difficult to become a SLIP or LCA at the other airlines listed. Compass had incredibly high hiring practices when the Delta test was being used and most of those folks came from other airlines. Expect the attrition to continue being high for the vast majority with competitive resumes.

Including union dues in an argument vs. Skywest? C’mon, sack up and learn perspective. They get most of the benefits without paying the dues. There is a reason we pay union dues and I hope you learn one day.

veewan

Learn perspective? Enlighten me as to what the reason paying union dues contributes​.

Let's just say this Mesa has ALPA, what are they benefiting from it? I'm not saying a union does not help but you can't say it's the only reason a pilot group is getting paid more. By your logic Mesa pilots with a union should have better compensation than SkyWest without one.

And I think it's a fair point to include in this discussion. The question at hand is who is offering Top Tier pay.

Is Compass paying the most or not? Will a pilot make more money at Compass than other regionals​ while they wait for a call from mainline?

AirBat

Your math isn't correct.
Our per diem rate is higher, take a look at your paycheck. You quoted the per diem at date of signing..
Also, we will get 100% deadhead, not yet but soon, I think it was DOS+5? Don't remember but it's in the CBA. So true that we don't have it now however very few pairings are built with much in the way of deadheads honestly.

LGARunway44

Plain and simple the only reason ALPA was created was to prevent pilot pushing. Each sick call, ASAP, and refused flight is possible because of what everyone prior had to deal with.

There are huge downfalls in terms of compensation and ALPA's involvement that regionals even exist. Compass doesn't pay top tier and I acknowledge that as well. They also aren't paying for accepting career stagnation. I earn more at Compass than I would have at my old company with a bonus.

I'm glad pay is increasing and Compass will have to pay more when they need to. Still a small company and I can't imagine they will have trouble finding 20 people a month.

To be honest i'm just sick of seeing the attitudes people have on these boards. I was really happy to get hired here and it was a good place. It wasn't always a pleasure to fly with the flow pilots but many of them had perspective that is needed here now. Stop trying to scare everyone away. This message board is a terrible representation of this pilot group.

TillerThriller

You will always have people who are frustrated and happy with where they work at any company, airlines included. Just so happens frustrations are a little higher here than they were say last year. It happens even at the legacies. I have had many guys at American, Fedex, United, and Southwest say not to go their company because of certain issues. Had a Delta 11 month FO who was upgrading to captain there complaining about it there and he doesn't understand why so many people want to work there. If they have it there you can guarantee it is going to happen here. Got to make the best of the situation and keep your head up.