Compass Updates 2: Revenge of the Sit
09-06-2019, 07:19 PM
#2861
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: executive gear swinger
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Clearly, even if the claimed great opportunity comes to pass and there is new flying to offset the loss of Delta flying, the SEA base is somewhat at risk.
Even so, there are lots of potential commuter flights out of SEA (and even some out of PAE) to both LAX and PHX, not to mention a lot of other hubs if the rumored new flying caused a base to be established in SFO or DEN (just to pull hubs out of a hat
).
It is actually doubly gratifying to see so many senior people moving on. Part of that is seeing ALPA people taking care of ALPA people, but the rest of it is that - assuming Compass does get the rumored additional flying, the seniority movement ought to be absolutely awesome.
Coming aboard after the 6 mo hiring freeze I barely had any reserve as a new FO. I’m talking days rather than weeks. Losing 40 senior people a month - that is, losing them to BETTER jobs - is the same sort of opportunity for someone coming up on upgrade. I’d have to check but I imagine we have ~360 Captains. At an attrition of 40 a month for even a couple of months reserve times for new captains left behind should be negligible - if we get the new flying.
Of course, that’s still a big if.
Even so, there are lots of potential commuter flights out of SEA (and even some out of PAE) to both LAX and PHX, not to mention a lot of other hubs if the rumored new flying caused a base to be established in SFO or DEN (just to pull hubs out of a hat
).It is actually doubly gratifying to see so many senior people moving on. Part of that is seeing ALPA people taking care of ALPA people, but the rest of it is that - assuming Compass does get the rumored additional flying, the seniority movement ought to be absolutely awesome.
Coming aboard after the 6 mo hiring freeze I barely had any reserve as a new FO. I’m talking days rather than weeks. Losing 40 senior people a month - that is, losing them to BETTER jobs - is the same sort of opportunity for someone coming up on upgrade. I’d have to check but I imagine we have ~360 Captains. At an attrition of 40 a month for even a couple of months reserve times for new captains left behind should be negligible - if we get the new flying.
Of course, that’s still a big if.
09-06-2019, 07:47 PM
#2862
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by DiamondDriver
This is so great. There are so many deserving people, some who’ve been here for quite awhile.
09-07-2019, 05:11 AM
#2863
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by FlyingKat
They aren't necessarily caving. Furlough protection and financial inducements would be a pretty big deal. But they wouldn't be the first group to use scope leverage for more money and furlough protection.
09-07-2019, 06:44 AM
#2864
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Originally Posted by NeverFlexTO
I’m about 99.9% sure UA pilots arent going to give up any scope in their current section 6 negotiations, in fact they are currently at an impass over scope. They want Delta PWA Section 1 limits plus some reductions...
09-07-2019, 06:53 AM
#2865
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 358
Originally Posted by Motoxer66
Even some of us Jr CA's are going to be moving on fairly soon. If I wasn't too worried about leaving compass anytime soon and was a newbie in either seat, I would stick around for the movement landslide on both sides of the seniority list. Stick around and enjoy the ride!
If true that additional CP pilots are getting job offers based on the loss of delta flying vs CA already in process to move on AND CP does gain more flying, it definitely could be a good ride all for the same reasons myself and others choose CP. Quick movement - that has always been a thing at Compass - get in build the time and move on. I have been asked 'what am I going to do' from friends and I said well my class is still on and until it's not it's still fits my personal check boxes. I still can't get a class with other west coast regionals for 4-6 months or more. It would even benefit me more if a DEN base happens to be a in the future of Compass.
09-07-2019, 07:35 AM
#2866
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by FlyingKat
You should go read the UA thread on this. Their Union is taking a very different direction on scope over the last week.
Their bottom of the payscale aircraft is the 757 at $91FO and $260CA an hour to start and tops out at 186/283 whereas their top payscale is the 787 topping out at 240/352 and that with very favorable contract terms allowing a lot of hours for pay with relatively few legs and duty time. And unlike their narrow body numbers that are protected by scope, there is nothing protecting their 140 aircraft wide body fleet - the largest of any US airline - from incursion by their own strategic partners. Especially since newer more efficient aircraft - even ones like the A220 - have the range to do it.
Rather than actually flying EWR to Glasgow in their own aircraft with US pilots, United could just offer their US gates and servicing for many of the overseas flights and take advantage through their partners of cheaper foreign crews. Nothing in their current CBA actually forbids that. It would totally be within the UAL pilot groups interest to lock out that possibility. Especially their more senior pilots who either have or aspire to those jobs.
Similarly, having Mana as a flowdown place for the junior pilots in the event of furlough would be desirable. More fuel efficient and longer range jets may be a game changer. Moxy airlines might put serious pressure on the hub and spoke model and economic downturns inevitably happen. Getting furloughed at United a decade ago was devastating for some people. You had return rights, but United wasn’t hiring and places that were wanted you to give up your seniority (and with it return rights) at your original company before they would hire you. The ability to flow down to a job at a UA regional while keeping your UA seniority is not to be underestimated.
So as the man said, never say never. 76 scope - up to what Delta already has - is a salable option. It may not come to pass, but it isn’t out of the question by any means.
Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean a deal WILL get done and even then done in time to help Compass. Time will tell.
09-07-2019, 07:41 AM
#2867
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Indeed. They seem to be far more worried about protecting their international wide body flying from cabotage and incursions by their own strategic alliance partners than stopping 76 seat flying. And it makes sense.
Their bottom of the payscale aircraft is the 757 at $91FO and $260CA an hour to start and tops out at 186/283 whereas their top payscale is the 787 topping out at 240/352 and that with very favorable contract terms allowing a lot of hours for pay with relatively few legs and duty time. And unlike their narrow body numbers that are protected by scope, there is nothing protecting their 140 aircraft wide body fleet - the largest of any US airline - from incursion by their own strategic partners. Especially since newer more efficient aircraft - even ones like the A220 - have the range to do it.
Rather than actually flying EWR to Glasgow in their own aircraft with US pilots, United could just offer their US gates and servicing for many of the overseas flights and take advantage through their partners of cheaper foreign crews. Nothing in their current CBA actually forbids that. It would totally be within the UAL pilot groups interest to lock out that possibility. Especially their more senior pilots who either have or aspire to those jobs.
Similarly, having Mana as a flowdown place for the junior pilots in the event of furlough would be desirable. More fuel efficient and longer range jets may be a game changer. Moxy airlines might put serious pressure on the hub and spoke model and economic downturns inevitably happen. Getting furloughed at United a decade ago was devastating for some people. You had return rights, but United wasn’t hiring and places that were wanted you to give up your seniority (and with it return rights) at your original company before they would hire you. The ability to flow down to a job at a UA regional while keeping your UA seniority is not to be underestimated.
So as the man said, never say never. 76 scope - up to what Delta already has - is a salable option. It may not come to pass, but it isn’t out of the question by any means.
Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean a deal WILL get done and even then done in time to help Compass. Time will tell.
Their bottom of the payscale aircraft is the 757 at $91FO and $260CA an hour to start and tops out at 186/283 whereas their top payscale is the 787 topping out at 240/352 and that with very favorable contract terms allowing a lot of hours for pay with relatively few legs and duty time. And unlike their narrow body numbers that are protected by scope, there is nothing protecting their 140 aircraft wide body fleet - the largest of any US airline - from incursion by their own strategic partners. Especially since newer more efficient aircraft - even ones like the A220 - have the range to do it.
Rather than actually flying EWR to Glasgow in their own aircraft with US pilots, United could just offer their US gates and servicing for many of the overseas flights and take advantage through their partners of cheaper foreign crews. Nothing in their current CBA actually forbids that. It would totally be within the UAL pilot groups interest to lock out that possibility. Especially their more senior pilots who either have or aspire to those jobs.
Similarly, having Mana as a flowdown place for the junior pilots in the event of furlough would be desirable. More fuel efficient and longer range jets may be a game changer. Moxy airlines might put serious pressure on the hub and spoke model and economic downturns inevitably happen. Getting furloughed at United a decade ago was devastating for some people. You had return rights, but United wasn’t hiring and places that were wanted you to give up your seniority (and with it return rights) at your original company before they would hire you. The ability to flow down to a job at a UA regional while keeping your UA seniority is not to be underestimated.
So as the man said, never say never. 76 scope - up to what Delta already has - is a salable option. It may not come to pass, but it isn’t out of the question by any means.
Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean a deal WILL get done and even then done in time to help Compass. Time will tell.
You know what is crazy, pilots here know more about what’s going on at other airlines than at our own airline....wtf
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09-07-2019, 07:50 AM
#2868
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Your so right, envoy live in a mushroom.
09-07-2019, 10:27 AM
#2869
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Fpmx772
You know what is crazy, pilots here know more about what’s going on at other airlines than at our own airline....wtf
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https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...onal-f-460666/
09-07-2019, 11:01 AM
#2870
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Coming here is a done deal. Learning what’s going on at potential future employers is never a bad thing:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...onal-f-460666/
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...onal-f-460666/
Missing the point of what I’m saying
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