Compass Fire
05-09-2008, 08:10 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Originally Posted by tyrael37
11:32PM 46.85 -96.84 373 32000 level Minneapolis Center
11:33PM 46.91 -96.95 363 10000 descending Minneapolis Center
11:34PM 47.01 -97.07 369 20400 climbing Minneapolis Center
11:35PM 47.11 -97.06 362 14300 descending Minneapolis Center
11:36PM 47.18 -96.96 328 10000 descending Minneapolis Center
11:37PM 47.15 -96.85 237 5900 descending Minneapolis Center
11:38PM 47.07 -96.82 193 3500 descending Minneapolis Center
11:39PM 47.07 -96.82 302 3500 level Minneapolis Center
11:39PM 47.01 -96.82 206 2400 descending Minneapolis Center
11:40PM 46.97 -96.82 194 1500 descending Minneapolis Center
11:50PM 46.82 -96.78 194 10000 level Minneapolis Center
11:33PM 46.91 -96.95 363 10000 descending Minneapolis Center
11:34PM 47.01 -97.07 369 20400 climbing Minneapolis Center
11:35PM 47.11 -97.06 362 14300 descending Minneapolis Center
11:36PM 47.18 -96.96 328 10000 descending Minneapolis Center
11:37PM 47.15 -96.85 237 5900 descending Minneapolis Center
11:38PM 47.07 -96.82 193 3500 descending Minneapolis Center
11:39PM 47.07 -96.82 302 3500 level Minneapolis Center
11:39PM 47.01 -96.82 206 2400 descending Minneapolis Center
11:40PM 46.97 -96.82 194 1500 descending Minneapolis Center
11:50PM 46.82 -96.78 194 10000 level Minneapolis Center
I'm guessing the first 10000 foot mode C and then 20400ft is a mode C swap, or some other error.
I think I'd rather have an engine fire than smoke in the cabin. Sounds like some seriously proactive FA's. Excellent job to all.
Is the big E-jet fly by wire ?
05-09-2008, 08:29 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Lav
Posts: 992
Funny, all the article talks about is how scared the pax were for their lives and how everyone thought they were going to die and how it was the scariest event ever.............not one mention of how professional and accurately the crew handled the emergency and saved the day. Freaking media trash.
Good job guys.
Good job guys.
05-09-2008, 10:11 AM
#15
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 23
Just be thankful everyone got on the ground safely!!! Always looking for hand outs, what a shame!!! bee yotch is so impolite, she's more of a douche!!![/quote]
I absolutely disagree....these passengers didn't pay three hundred dollars to not get to their destination...experience an airplane on fire.
The flight crew did their job to the best of ANY crews abilities (hell of a job guys and girls) but the passengers are not getting handout for their experience. They are getting what they should. I would sue if I didnt.
If you where on a cruise and the ship had to stop at a port and emergency evacuate because it was on fire, I think you would sue if they didnt take care of you.
I absolutely disagree....these passengers didn't pay three hundred dollars to not get to their destination...experience an airplane on fire.
The flight crew did their job to the best of ANY crews abilities (hell of a job guys and girls) but the passengers are not getting handout for their experience. They are getting what they should. I would sue if I didnt.
If you where on a cruise and the ship had to stop at a port and emergency evacuate because it was on fire, I think you would sue if they didnt take care of you.
05-09-2008, 01:12 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 320b
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by denvrpilot
Just be thankful everyone got on the ground safely!!! Always looking for hand outs, what a shame!!! bee yotch is so impolite, she's more of a douche!!!
I absolutely disagree....these passengers didn't pay three hundred dollars to not get to their destination...experience an airplane on fire.
The flight crew did their job to the best of ANY crews abilities (hell of a job guys and girls) but the passengers are not getting handout for their experience. They are getting what they should. I would sue if I didnt.
If you where on a cruise and the ship had to stop at a port and emergency evacuate because it was on fire, I think you would sue if they didnt take care of you.[/QUOTE]
They did take care of them. They put them in a hotel, and got them to their destination.
05-09-2008, 03:27 PM
#17
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Unfortunately there are companies out there that don't do full blown emergency descent scenarios to landing in the sim. Many that do, only do it during initial training (not each recurrent or annually).
There are two things that scare me ****less about flying. Fire/smoke in the cabin or cargo that cannot be contained, and rapid decompressurization above FL300.
If you don't do emergency descents (TO LANDING) during training, make sure to ask for one next time you're in the box. We do it each time that we go, and it's important enough that both of us train to fly the procedure.
My personal record is FL450 to full stop (with suitable landing field within a 15 mile range) in 5 minutes and 56 seconds. (The Citation is a BRICK and flown properly can fly the same descent angle as the shuttle).
Some points to remember if you ever have a cabin fire onboard (These are my personal opinion of course):
1) Don't spend time trying to figure out "is it smoke?". There are numerous cases over the years where aircraft crashed or hulls were lost due to crews taking a "wait and see" attitude. (Swissair and UPS both come to mind).
2) Once you do commit to getting the plane on the ground- DO IT! That might mean landing at a field that doesn't have your company operations. At that point, if you've made the decision to get down- don't waste time trying to get dispatch. ACARS them your intentions or ask ATC to advice company of what you are doing. Sort it out on the ground.
3) If you're burning, there's no such thing as a "standard" profile. This is why it's so important to practice this maneuver in the sim. Properly flown to a runway that is of suitable length (of course longer is better), you should be able to maintain a VERY HIGH rate of descent to short final:
Configure for your emergency descent profile. Enter the descent and roll into a 40-45 degree bank. This provides both positive g's for your passengers and assists in losing lift rapidly. If you are over a suitable field, continue to spiral down overhead. If not, once established in a dive, level the bank and steer towards your intended landing spot.
Once you pass through 15,000 feet, set yourself up to be at a point approximately 1-3 miles short of the landing point at 1,000-1500 AGL (the exact point is going to depend on your aircraft type and the amount of time/distance it takes to transition from descent to fully configured to land). This is your "aiming point" during the descent. Descend at your max descent rate/speed until this point. When you reach it, leave the speed devices extended and level off- bleeding off the speed to configure to land.
Done properly, you can shave minutes off of your descent time!
There are two things that scare me ****less about flying. Fire/smoke in the cabin or cargo that cannot be contained, and rapid decompressurization above FL300.
If you don't do emergency descents (TO LANDING) during training, make sure to ask for one next time you're in the box. We do it each time that we go, and it's important enough that both of us train to fly the procedure.
My personal record is FL450 to full stop (with suitable landing field within a 15 mile range) in 5 minutes and 56 seconds. (The Citation is a BRICK and flown properly can fly the same descent angle as the shuttle).
Some points to remember if you ever have a cabin fire onboard (These are my personal opinion of course):
1) Don't spend time trying to figure out "is it smoke?". There are numerous cases over the years where aircraft crashed or hulls were lost due to crews taking a "wait and see" attitude. (Swissair and UPS both come to mind).
2) Once you do commit to getting the plane on the ground- DO IT! That might mean landing at a field that doesn't have your company operations. At that point, if you've made the decision to get down- don't waste time trying to get dispatch. ACARS them your intentions or ask ATC to advice company of what you are doing. Sort it out on the ground.
3) If you're burning, there's no such thing as a "standard" profile. This is why it's so important to practice this maneuver in the sim. Properly flown to a runway that is of suitable length (of course longer is better), you should be able to maintain a VERY HIGH rate of descent to short final:
Configure for your emergency descent profile. Enter the descent and roll into a 40-45 degree bank. This provides both positive g's for your passengers and assists in losing lift rapidly. If you are over a suitable field, continue to spiral down overhead. If not, once established in a dive, level the bank and steer towards your intended landing spot.
Once you pass through 15,000 feet, set yourself up to be at a point approximately 1-3 miles short of the landing point at 1,000-1500 AGL (the exact point is going to depend on your aircraft type and the amount of time/distance it takes to transition from descent to fully configured to land). This is your "aiming point" during the descent. Descend at your max descent rate/speed until this point. When you reach it, leave the speed devices extended and level off- bleeding off the speed to configure to land.
Done properly, you can shave minutes off of your descent time!
05-09-2008, 05:39 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Unfortunately there are companies out there that don't do full blown emergency descent scenarios to landing in the sim. Many that do, only do it during initial training (not each recurrent or annually).
There are two things that scare me ****less about flying. Fire/smoke in the cabin or cargo that cannot be contained, and rapid decompressurization above FL300.
If you don't do emergency descents (TO LANDING) during training, make sure to ask for one next time you're in the box. We do it each time that we go, and it's important enough that both of us train to fly the procedure.
My personal record is FL450 to full stop (with suitable landing field within a 15 mile range) in 5 minutes and 56 seconds. (The Citation is a BRICK and flown properly can fly the same descent angle as the shuttle).
Some points to remember if you ever have a cabin fire onboard (These are my personal opinion of course):
1) Don't spend time trying to figure out "is it smoke?". There are numerous cases over the years where aircraft crashed or hulls were lost due to crews taking a "wait and see" attitude. (Swissair and UPS both come to mind).
2) Once you do commit to getting the plane on the ground- DO IT! That might mean landing at a field that doesn't have your company operations. At that point, if you've made the decision to get down- don't waste time trying to get dispatch. ACARS them your intentions or ask ATC to advice company of what you are doing. Sort it out on the ground.
3) If you're burning, there's no such thing as a "standard" profile. This is why it's so important to practice this maneuver in the sim. Properly flown to a runway that is of suitable length (of course longer is better), you should be able to maintain a VERY HIGH rate of descent to short final:
Configure for your emergency descent profile. Enter the descent and roll into a 40-45 degree bank. This provides both positive g's for your passengers and assists in losing lift rapidly. If you are over a suitable field, continue to spiral down overhead. If not, once established in a dive, level the bank and steer towards your intended landing spot.
Once you pass through 15,000 feet, set yourself up to be at a point approximately 1-3 miles short of the landing point at 1,000-1500 AGL (the exact point is going to depend on your aircraft type and the amount of time/distance it takes to transition from descent to fully configured to land). This is your "aiming point" during the descent. Descend at your max descent rate/speed until this point. When you reach it, leave the speed devices extended and level off- bleeding off the speed to configure to land.
Done properly, you can shave minutes off of your descent time!
There are two things that scare me ****less about flying. Fire/smoke in the cabin or cargo that cannot be contained, and rapid decompressurization above FL300.
If you don't do emergency descents (TO LANDING) during training, make sure to ask for one next time you're in the box. We do it each time that we go, and it's important enough that both of us train to fly the procedure.
My personal record is FL450 to full stop (with suitable landing field within a 15 mile range) in 5 minutes and 56 seconds. (The Citation is a BRICK and flown properly can fly the same descent angle as the shuttle).
Some points to remember if you ever have a cabin fire onboard (These are my personal opinion of course):
1) Don't spend time trying to figure out "is it smoke?". There are numerous cases over the years where aircraft crashed or hulls were lost due to crews taking a "wait and see" attitude. (Swissair and UPS both come to mind).
2) Once you do commit to getting the plane on the ground- DO IT! That might mean landing at a field that doesn't have your company operations. At that point, if you've made the decision to get down- don't waste time trying to get dispatch. ACARS them your intentions or ask ATC to advice company of what you are doing. Sort it out on the ground.
3) If you're burning, there's no such thing as a "standard" profile. This is why it's so important to practice this maneuver in the sim. Properly flown to a runway that is of suitable length (of course longer is better), you should be able to maintain a VERY HIGH rate of descent to short final:
Configure for your emergency descent profile. Enter the descent and roll into a 40-45 degree bank. This provides both positive g's for your passengers and assists in losing lift rapidly. If you are over a suitable field, continue to spiral down overhead. If not, once established in a dive, level the bank and steer towards your intended landing spot.
Once you pass through 15,000 feet, set yourself up to be at a point approximately 1-3 miles short of the landing point at 1,000-1500 AGL (the exact point is going to depend on your aircraft type and the amount of time/distance it takes to transition from descent to fully configured to land). This is your "aiming point" during the descent. Descend at your max descent rate/speed until this point. When you reach it, leave the speed devices extended and level off- bleeding off the speed to configure to land.
Done properly, you can shave minutes off of your descent time!
05-10-2008, 08:40 AM
#20
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,292
Flyer Josh has good points...
The single most likely thing to kill you in this situation is delay and failure to take the most aggressive action possible to get on the ground.
Believe me, it's very hard to convince yourself that you really are a dealing with a catastrophe-in-the-making...we're so used to routine glitches which turn out to be very minor, or nothing at all. You have to mentally prepare yourself in advance to take aggressive action...and don't let the other pilot procrastinate either.
The single most likely thing to kill you in this situation is delay and failure to take the most aggressive action possible to get on the ground.
Believe me, it's very hard to convince yourself that you really are a dealing with a catastrophe-in-the-making...we're so used to routine glitches which turn out to be very minor, or nothing at all. You have to mentally prepare yourself in advance to take aggressive action...and don't let the other pilot procrastinate either.
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