First, I didn't offer any solution. I was only saying that I am not on the "Street captains are awesome" bandwagon. As you pointed out, some guys are essentially going directly to the left seat training after finishing right seat training. That guy will have his hands very full dealing with a challenging LAX operation, brand new flight attendants, brand new MX people and everything else that is going on right now, and they will likely not have an experienced F/O to lean on a little bit when things get challenging. Instead, they will have a new guy that will make every rookie mistake in the book, and they will not have had a chance to learn from those same mistakes with the guidance of someone more experienced on their left before taking command. A couple hundred hours in the right seat with us before they upgrade would make a big difference in their preparation for the responsibility. I understand that mandating right seat time before upgrade is not so realistic right now with our growth and attrition, but I do think that it is hard to argue that it is not safer to do it that way.

I have, and am still considering, Compass for the LAX base (short commute for me). I have heard upgrades are very fast. I have the time, sic and pic PIC 121, and thought, should I apply and get hired, the upgrade would be an attractor (yes, livable $). But honestly, I would not be so comfortable to go through FO training and then immediately go into upgrade training without flying the airplane for 1-2 months as an FO and getting to know the company. Or, it would be fine with me if the company provided extensive PIC IOE of similar duration (1-2 months). But I seriously doubt they have the resources to provide this.

No one is forcing you to bid captain. :rolleyes:

Touché and a good point.

No one says you have to upgrade right away. If LAX is a good commute for you, I would apply right now.

Yea you could keep yourself as an FO for a couple months and then bid for it. Honestly, the way they do it at compass, being awarded CA could mean a class date 4-8 weeks away anyways.

I don't know who's going directly from FO new hire training directly into upgrade training??
I was hired in early Feb. Just going to do IOE next week most likely, and no CA award.

For those Nov & Dec new hire FO's that were awarded, they have already been on the line for at least a month if not two, and their upgrade class is not until July. So they will have 3-5 months on the line as FO before going to upgrade class.

Anyone who says new hires are going directly into upgrade training is not correct. Will it happen soon? Perhaps. But....

The classes start June 1st. Meaning some on this award could be down to a month of Compass line experience. They need these captains for July. With the Compass line experience dropping for upgrades, these candidates will need more training to reach captain proficiency level.

Anyone think our staffing situation is going to get tighter?

Even thought the award was for July, the upgrade classes are for June 1st, 10th, and 17th. So people with my seniority would only have 2 full months on the line. Definitely still better than nothing

No one is arguing that there aren't safety implications here. But it is the safer option than upgrading someone without the minimum 1000 hours of 121 SIC.

I would argue that the company's minimum for upgrade should be 2500 plus 1 hour for 2 hours less than 1000 hours of Compass line experience. On top of that, their OE should be increased similarly as well. This doesn't change the fact we still need to hire 'street captains', it just means those coming in for those positions, who are eligible, need to have more experience than 2500 hours and 1000 hours of 121 SIC or 135 PIC.

The training department and check airman should not be signing them off unless they are ready. Now that we are upgrading pilots with only a month or two of line experience, a majority of them will require a more than normal training footprint.

I can almost assure you that those upgrading with only 2500 hours and 1000 hours of 121 SIC will see an increased percent of them having to extend their upgrade training footprint.

Is that possibility in the company's staffing plan, probably not.