Corporate vs airline / starting at age 50
#31
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Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: FO
Posts: 67
The OP mentioned NAI as the major or a corporate gig. The response after that post shows that most responders either failed to see this or (I seriously doubt) equate NAI with a major.
My take; if you can land a real major (DAL, AA, UA, HA, SWA, AK, FDX, or UPS), than take it. If it is anyone less, than you really need to balance the quality of the corporation/flight department and decide from there. If you haven't interviewed yet, than be sure to ask basic questions (for sure of the corporate gig) about QOL issues, time off, call out expectations, future pay after initial first year expectations, etc. With any airline, use this forum and dig out opinion from past posts.
My take; if you can land a real major (DAL, AA, UA, HA, SWA, AK, FDX, or UPS), than take it. If it is anyone less, than you really need to balance the quality of the corporation/flight department and decide from there. If you haven't interviewed yet, than be sure to ask basic questions (for sure of the corporate gig) about QOL issues, time off, call out expectations, future pay after initial first year expectations, etc. With any airline, use this forum and dig out opinion from past posts.
#32
My old Fortune 500 department offered a 6% 401K match for retirement. Yes, they offered restricted stock units, but gains were taxable!
At every major airline right now the retirement consists of a 15-16% defined contribution -- not a match. No "pay to play". At some of them the profit sharing is a qualified plan which, during a good year, an add another 15% tax free to retirement.
You're talking about 30% tax free contribution on a salary of $100,000+ for a junior FO? It's hard to beat $30,000 contribution at no cost to you.
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At every major airline right now the retirement consists of a 15-16% defined contribution -- not a match. No "pay to play". At some of them the profit sharing is a qualified plan which, during a good year, an add another 15% tax free to retirement.
You're talking about 30% tax free contribution on a salary of $100,000+ for a junior FO? It's hard to beat $30,000 contribution at no cost to you.
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#33
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 162
I was 49 and left for a Legacy carrier after 20 years of corporate flying for two private and one public company. The constant dysfunction & politics eventually ran me off. There are great corporate flight departments out there, but very few and far between. Airline flying is not as enjoyable I have to admit, but the QOL & compensation more than make up for the BS & non transparency of corporate aviation.
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#34
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Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: FO
Posts: 67
I was 49 and left for a Legacy carrier after 20 years of corporate flying for two private and one public company. The constant dysfunction & politics eventually ran me off. There are great corporate flight departments out there, but very few and far between. Airline flying is not as enjoyable I have to admit, but the QOL & compensation more than make up for the BS & non transparency of corporate aviation.
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#35
ProPilot magazine article on corporate retention during an airline pilot hiring boom.
http://online.propilotmag.com/Apr201...Item=undefined
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http://online.propilotmag.com/Apr201...Item=undefined
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#36
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Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 82
ProPilot magazine article on corporate retention during an airline pilot hiring boom.
Professional Pilot, April 2017
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Professional Pilot, April 2017
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#37
There are some inaccuracies in there. Wrong percentages on retirement, he writes "match" when he means non-elective contribution (B-fund) and some of his numbers are based on minimum guarantee which is a fairy tale. Nobody has flown that little in forever. But I guess it's conservative. Still it's good to shine a light on the problem the corp depts are going to have
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#38
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Rebuilding the career
Posts: 169
ProPilot magazine article on corporate retention during an airline pilot hiring boom.
Professional Pilot, April 2017
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Professional Pilot, April 2017
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be able to retain pilots.
#39
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Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 28
2 kids graduated college and two in, one senior and one sophomore left, but pretty much paid for. House almost paid off. Vested in a pension and 401k in good shape.
Talked to old commuter (regional), many old mentors have passed on, but a few still remembered me and invited me back.
However, I flew corporate in the 80's, prior to reluctantly joining a commuter due to the tax law change in 87. (lease back) I loved the type of corporate flying I used to do: Single Pilot turbo prop. What happened to all of those small one or two person flight departments? Sort of my ideal goal, maybe one or two frames with round, steam gauges, as I have zero experience with all of the new glass, FMS junk...? Little worried about that.
121 was nice in a different way, as we had everything planned for us, a very reliable support network and FA's to bring us coffee, but very boring. I just recently spent 3.6 hours in a 172 to get a current BFR, but know that I need a few months in the right seat to get comfortable again.
BTW, the house that's almost paid for is in Portland, OR and I won't be moving. Should I go for the predictable and commutable 121, or search for ... what?? I am considering DPJ, as they are commutable from PDX, but really would prefer to find a small flight department. I have substantial PIC experience in all the normal turbo props, i.e.: King Air, AC-690, Cheyenne, Conquest, as well as, in the airline world: three years Metro Captain and two years DHC-8 Captain. Zero jet experience. (unless you count the "on the job training" in LR-20 series. swingin gear on revenue flights,)
I used to think that I could always easily return to aviation, but am finding that things have really changed and dated experience is almost a handicap ... Words of advice please.
Thank you very much.
#40
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: CRJ First Officer
Posts: 28
Couple of more points for flying for a major airline/cargo company - when I am off, I am off! If my phone goes off with a call or a text asking me to come in and fly, it's for 1.5 or 2 times my normal pay rate. As for vacation (do corp guys get vacation?), I just turned two weeks of vacation into 4 weeks off with pay. How about retirement? My company will contribute 15% of annual earnings to a my 401(k) - I don't have to put a dime of my own money to get that either. How about profit sharing? Any of you corp. guys get profit sharing? This year was just under 20%. I work 18 days a month (14-15 hard scheduled days, pick up 2-4 days a month of overtime flying) clear 170K/yr in direct compensation and receive an additional 35% in retirement account contributions ($56K). And pay goes up twice a year - on my employment anniversary and the contract amendable date. Any of you corp pilots making that kind of cash? Maybe DJT's personal pilot, but I doubt anyone else out there is making this kind of money.
Flying for a major isn't as exciting as landing a G650 or BBJ in Innsbruck, but I will use my travel bennies and spend $200 for a business class seat to Vienna, get a cut rate rental BMW 750 and meet you there. Oh you can't have a beer at the bar because the boss might want to travel tomorrow? I'll drink it for you.
I don't mean to sound snarky, but at the end of the day a pilot at one of the 4 majors or FedEx/UPS is going to make a lot more $$$, have a better QOL and job protection. I miss a show time due to a flat tire/car trouble, accident or just plain over slept it's a talking to by the chief pilot and letter in my file and I still get paid for that trip. Loud party in the hotel room next door? Air conditioner didn't work? No hot water? A call to crew scheduling telling them you too tired/fatigued to fly, relieved from flying and still get paid. Try calling sick/tired as a Corp pilot and you are probably looking for a new job.
As for NAI or bad executive officer bringing down one of the majors - we're too big to fail. The demand for air travel these days is too great to not make money at it. It's almost as easy as selling whiskey and sex..almost.
One last thing - I don't have to put up with the boss's trophy wife and snotty kids.
Flying for a major isn't as exciting as landing a G650 or BBJ in Innsbruck, but I will use my travel bennies and spend $200 for a business class seat to Vienna, get a cut rate rental BMW 750 and meet you there. Oh you can't have a beer at the bar because the boss might want to travel tomorrow? I'll drink it for you.
I don't mean to sound snarky, but at the end of the day a pilot at one of the 4 majors or FedEx/UPS is going to make a lot more $$$, have a better QOL and job protection. I miss a show time due to a flat tire/car trouble, accident or just plain over slept it's a talking to by the chief pilot and letter in my file and I still get paid for that trip. Loud party in the hotel room next door? Air conditioner didn't work? No hot water? A call to crew scheduling telling them you too tired/fatigued to fly, relieved from flying and still get paid. Try calling sick/tired as a Corp pilot and you are probably looking for a new job.
As for NAI or bad executive officer bringing down one of the majors - we're too big to fail. The demand for air travel these days is too great to not make money at it. It's almost as easy as selling whiskey and sex..almost.
One last thing - I don't have to put up with the boss's trophy wife and snotty kids.
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