galaxy flyer

And that’s why I’m writing from retirement.

Tactical pilot manning has always been the short pole in the tent. Standards out of UPT are high, grads in the last 15 years have frequently opted other assignments when they could due to the high tempo, and an experienced flight lead/IP takes years to grow and days to lose. It’s a serious problem and won’t be fixed anytime soon. Forty years ago, guys in my class weren’t interested in tactical air due to the commitment.


GF

Bahamasflyer

So far this discussion has been mostly about pay and days off, but what about other critical items like “same occupation” LTD as well as ASAP program?

It is my understanding that most 121 carriers offer decent “same occupation “ LTD until age 65 if one loses his/her medical.

Can the corporate operators come close to matching that?

What about the ASAP programs that every 121 has?

galaxy flyer

ASAP is very particular to 121, but there are similar reporting processes. We had a FOQA program and a gatekeeper. It’s a rare flight department large enough to run a ASAP. We also had an SMS program thru an outside contract. I found the FOQA quite helpful.

LTD is going to be tough, as those types of programs are unheard of in business outside of 121 contracts. If you’re a worker bee at ABC Corp and become physically unable to work, the best you’ll see is a one-year disability. Loss of license typically is handled individually, often a non-flying position inside the company. Even the US Government doesn’t offer a career long disability program.

GF

BPWI

In the last year alone, I've gone through 2 separate interviewing cycles and both companies offered LTD. Times are a changin'-

billsaw

For the disability they could offer that easy. It's just money. You can buy your own policy through Harvey Watt and so can any flight department for it's pilots. It really isn't that expensive depending on what you want.

We checked years ago and it was somewhere between $200-$300 per month per pilot depending on what payouts you wanted, age, and when you wanted it to kick in after the loss of medical.

From a management perspective that is small potatoes. The massive raises most departments are going to have to give pilots along with doubling the number of pilots to give a schedule will cost way more than the LTD stuff. But it is a nice carrot to dangle!

Imagine a flight department now with two pilots per plane with a salary of say 120k and 110k for something like a Challenger totaling 230k. (I am just making them up we all know they vary)

Pretty soon they will be paying two guys 180k and two 160k or more totaling 680k. That is the reality of the situation. They are gonna need to triple or quadruple their pilot labor budget.

All the perks like $3,500 a year for LTD are just a drop in the bucket if they want to keep their aircraft crewed with good guys. But I agree it is one they need to do to compete because it is on a lot of peoples minds and rightfully so.

billsaw

On a side note if I recall correctly there were some bad things on the disability.

I want to preface this by saying this was around four or five years ago and it was Harvey Watt. Things may have changed and you may be able to work out different and better deals. But here were some of the negatives you will want to look into.

The payout was for a percentage of what you made but capped at 6k per month. Now being that this will not be taxed it would be like making 8 or 9k lets say but if your a guy making 15 or 18 per month it's quite the pay cut and there was no option to buy more. Maybe you could buy 2 policies but then that would get expensive. Pretty sure airline pilots have a better payout. Maybe someone can weigh in.

The other problem was your stuck at 6k for the life of the policy which will pay out until your 65. No cost of living increase for inflation. So lets say someone at 40 loses their medical. Well today in 2018 you can survive on that without to much of a problem unless you are prone to bad financial moves but 20 years from now when your 60 $6,000 may equal a middle of the road car payment. That's an issue.

Maybe things have changed but best I can remember that's what they told me. If anyone checks on it or knows let us know what the new deals are because I am working with dated info here.

BPWI

The 2 group plans paid out 5K and the other 60% of your salary up to 10K a month. I never got the cost from them, but it would have been a 10K/mo payout with that particular position. The issue is that most group plans only cover that for 2 years. After that, you must be unable to perform ANY occupation to continue the benefit. Devil is always in the details.

f10a

Curious about how this issue could be corrected. How should a proper vacation policy at a 91 with no hard days off be? I think they your vacation days should count toward the RONs but can't seem to get anyone to understand this concept. As it is now, you take 5 days off and you will still end up averaging 12 RONs per month instead of actually taking a break from work like a 121 pilot.

Any thoughts on how this could be better explained?

galaxy flyer

In my department, we scheduled 7 hard days off each month, usually consecutively, but could be split. Vacation after 3 years was 3 weeks and after 10 years four weeks. Since, just about everywhere pilots are the stray electron, those numbers are really 15 days or 20 days. No one in most businesses are assumed to take vacation days on the weekends. Sooooo, if a pilot took two weeks vacation, the “hard off” days were applied to the weekend days. Then, if one came off vacation and the plane left the day before, it was pretty easy to have three or four weeks off. Throw in scheduled maintenance, I was off once almost two months. A friend of mine was off the entire summer, without vacation, while his Global was in for an 8C check.

It’s a different brand of flying for different folks. I once had 3 days off in Berlin, no chance of going anywhere. Part way thru a furious argument with scheduling about staying at the Ritz-Carleton near Brandenburg Gate. We wanted the points at the Marriott, but Jepp had a deal on rooms at the Ritz. I finally gave up and stayed at the Ritz and expensed the cocktails at the bar.

GF

billsaw

Was that through Harvey Watt? What year were you quoted this?

Here is the Harvey Watt info

http://harveywatt.com/insurance-plan...SAAEgI00vD_BwE

Here is the extended long term policy.

http://harveywatt.com/uploads/files/...c2b7af18a7.pdf


If I recall correctly I looked at buying 2 plans. The first was the Harvey Watt plan that kicked in after one year and paid out for 48 months which essentially took you to 5 years. The second plan started at year 5 and went to 65 which was the extended plan.

So the plan we looked at started one year after losing the medical and takes you to 65. It was pretty reasonable just with no inflation adjustment down the road it will get tight.

Also if you lose your medical they are going to try to do everything possible to help you get it back so they can avoid paying out which is good.