Mil-to-Corp experience?
02-22-2010, 08:54 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Company Pilot
Posts: 110
2xAGM,
I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axels about your flight times. If you graduated from UPT then we already know that you know how to fly, and we know the quality of your training and experience. While it is nice to have 10k+ hours of Multi-Engine Turbine PIC time, many times it is not a "deal breaker" if you don't. In the Corp. world we are looking more at you as a person. Does this guy seem like a team player? Is this guy someone I could go on a 2 week international trip with, and not want to beat with a sock with a bar of soap in it! We have had many 12k+ hour pilots come to us, but attitude really prevented them from flying with us.
Most of the time in the Corp. world it is not what you know, but rather who you know. So, get out to your local airports and start meeting different operators (even with 2 years left to go in the AF). I would be willing to bet that many Corp. job openings you see on sites like Climbto350 are posted just for legal HR purposes (they most likely already have someone in mind). An operator is more apt to hire someone they know , than someone they don't. Believe me things will be much easier for you if you get to know the right people. Even if they don't have a position open they may turn you onto someone who does. Even if you are stationed somewhere where you don't want to live after you get out, get to know the local operators! They may have a brother who is the Chief Pilot at a company close to your home town (ya never know!). I am always amazed at the "6 degrees of seperation" in our industry!
During most Corp. interviews you will not be asked Airline type questions such as "how do you compute a VDP" or "on this approach chart what is the highest obstacle"? Be ready for Questions like "Tell me a time when you.....", and "in your opinion what makes a good Corp. pilot" or "What is your idea of customer service"?
Pay could be all over the scale! Many Corp. departments pay each pilot differently. It just depends on what do you bring to the table. Unlike the Fractionals or Airlines, those guys are used to saying "okay, I fly this airplane, I have been here this long I should make "X" amount". Not so in the corp. world. If you have a guy who has several extra duties (which he asked for), should he be paid the same as the guy whos yearly goal is only to make T/Os equal Landings, and as soon as we are back from a trip he is gone till the next one?
Smaller companies are more concerned with your flight times (this is for insurance purposes). Many larger companies are Self insured so times are not as important (but quality of that time is).
In short, "Yes" there are jobs you can qualify for out there (granted not many right now, but who knows what it will be like in 2 years). "Yes", you can make a living at it. Good Luck!
I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axels about your flight times. If you graduated from UPT then we already know that you know how to fly, and we know the quality of your training and experience. While it is nice to have 10k+ hours of Multi-Engine Turbine PIC time, many times it is not a "deal breaker" if you don't. In the Corp. world we are looking more at you as a person. Does this guy seem like a team player? Is this guy someone I could go on a 2 week international trip with, and not want to beat with a sock with a bar of soap in it! We have had many 12k+ hour pilots come to us, but attitude really prevented them from flying with us.
Most of the time in the Corp. world it is not what you know, but rather who you know. So, get out to your local airports and start meeting different operators (even with 2 years left to go in the AF). I would be willing to bet that many Corp. job openings you see on sites like Climbto350 are posted just for legal HR purposes (they most likely already have someone in mind). An operator is more apt to hire someone they know , than someone they don't. Believe me things will be much easier for you if you get to know the right people. Even if they don't have a position open they may turn you onto someone who does. Even if you are stationed somewhere where you don't want to live after you get out, get to know the local operators! They may have a brother who is the Chief Pilot at a company close to your home town (ya never know!). I am always amazed at the "6 degrees of seperation" in our industry!
During most Corp. interviews you will not be asked Airline type questions such as "how do you compute a VDP" or "on this approach chart what is the highest obstacle"? Be ready for Questions like "Tell me a time when you.....", and "in your opinion what makes a good Corp. pilot" or "What is your idea of customer service"?
Pay could be all over the scale! Many Corp. departments pay each pilot differently. It just depends on what do you bring to the table. Unlike the Fractionals or Airlines, those guys are used to saying "okay, I fly this airplane, I have been here this long I should make "X" amount". Not so in the corp. world. If you have a guy who has several extra duties (which he asked for), should he be paid the same as the guy whos yearly goal is only to make T/Os equal Landings, and as soon as we are back from a trip he is gone till the next one?
Smaller companies are more concerned with your flight times (this is for insurance purposes). Many larger companies are Self insured so times are not as important (but quality of that time is).
In short, "Yes" there are jobs you can qualify for out there (granted not many right now, but who knows what it will be like in 2 years). "Yes", you can make a living at it. Good Luck!
02-22-2010, 09:05 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Tgaug6300
2xAGM,
I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axels about your flight times. If you graduated from UPT then we already know that you know how to fly, and we know the quality of your training and experience. While it is nice to have 10k+ hours of Multi-Engine Turbine PIC time, many times it is not a "deal breaker" if you don't. In the Corp. world we are looking more at you as a person. Does this guy seem like a team player? Is this guy someone I could go on a 2 week international trip with, and not want to beat with a sock with a bar of soap in it! We have had many 12k+ hour pilots come to us, but attitude really prevented them from flying with us.
Most of the time in the Corp. world it is not what you know, but rather who you know. So, get out to your local airports and start meeting different operators (even with 2 years left to go in the AF). I would be willing to bet that many Corp. job openings you see on sites like Climbto350 are posted just for legal HR purposes (they most likely already have someone in mind). An operator is more apt to hire someone they know , than someone they don't. Believe me things will be much easier for you if you get to know the right people. Even if they don't have a position open they may turn you onto someone who does. Even if you are stationed somewhere where you don't want to live after you get out, get to know the local operators! They may have a brother who is the Chief Pilot at a company close to your home town (ya never know!). I am always amazed at the "6 degrees of seperation" in our industry!
During most Corp. interviews you will not be asked Airline type questions such as "how do you compute a VDP" or "on this approach chart what is the highest obstacle"? Be ready for Questions like "Tell me a time when you.....", and "in your opinion what makes a good Corp. pilot" or "What is your idea of customer service"?
Pay could be all over the scale! Many Corp. departments pay each pilot differently. It just depends on what do you bring to the table. Unlike the Fractionals or Airlines, those guys are used to saying "okay, I fly this airplane, I have been here this long I should make "X" amount". Not so in the corp. world. If you have a guy who has several extra duties (which he asked for), should he be paid the same as the guy whos yearly goal is only to make T/Os equal Landings, and as soon as we are back from a trip he is gone till the next one?
Smaller companies are more concerned with your flight times (this is for insurance purposes). Many larger companies are Self insured so times are not as important (but quality of that time is).
In short, "Yes" there are jobs you can qualify for out there (granted not many right now, but who knows what it will be like in 2 years). "Yes", you can make a living at it. Good Luck!
I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axels about your flight times. If you graduated from UPT then we already know that you know how to fly, and we know the quality of your training and experience. While it is nice to have 10k+ hours of Multi-Engine Turbine PIC time, many times it is not a "deal breaker" if you don't. In the Corp. world we are looking more at you as a person. Does this guy seem like a team player? Is this guy someone I could go on a 2 week international trip with, and not want to beat with a sock with a bar of soap in it! We have had many 12k+ hour pilots come to us, but attitude really prevented them from flying with us.
Most of the time in the Corp. world it is not what you know, but rather who you know. So, get out to your local airports and start meeting different operators (even with 2 years left to go in the AF). I would be willing to bet that many Corp. job openings you see on sites like Climbto350 are posted just for legal HR purposes (they most likely already have someone in mind). An operator is more apt to hire someone they know , than someone they don't. Believe me things will be much easier for you if you get to know the right people. Even if they don't have a position open they may turn you onto someone who does. Even if you are stationed somewhere where you don't want to live after you get out, get to know the local operators! They may have a brother who is the Chief Pilot at a company close to your home town (ya never know!). I am always amazed at the "6 degrees of seperation" in our industry!
During most Corp. interviews you will not be asked Airline type questions such as "how do you compute a VDP" or "on this approach chart what is the highest obstacle"? Be ready for Questions like "Tell me a time when you.....", and "in your opinion what makes a good Corp. pilot" or "What is your idea of customer service"?
Pay could be all over the scale! Many Corp. departments pay each pilot differently. It just depends on what do you bring to the table. Unlike the Fractionals or Airlines, those guys are used to saying "okay, I fly this airplane, I have been here this long I should make "X" amount". Not so in the corp. world. If you have a guy who has several extra duties (which he asked for), should he be paid the same as the guy whos yearly goal is only to make T/Os equal Landings, and as soon as we are back from a trip he is gone till the next one?
Smaller companies are more concerned with your flight times (this is for insurance purposes). Many larger companies are Self insured so times are not as important (but quality of that time is).
In short, "Yes" there are jobs you can qualify for out there (granted not many right now, but who knows what it will be like in 2 years). "Yes", you can make a living at it. Good Luck!
A wonderful summary of the corporate world and the challenges facing someone trying to break in. I have none of the experience that you mention from the inside, but I can vouch for everything you're saying about attacking the problem from the outside! Thanks for sharing.
2xAGM - 2 years out is NOT too long to start making those contacts and networking.
USMCFLYR
02-23-2010, 03:26 PM
#23
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: KA200
Posts: 20
2xAGM,
Stay in or find a guard/reserve job to help supplement your income. I retired a few years back and was lucky enough to get a corporate gig right away, in fact I flew with Tgaug at the same company and I agree with everything he said. You can break into the corp world without an 'in' but you have to work at it. When the corp world starting going south last year, and the furloughs started, it was nice to have a retirement to fall back on. I at least knew I could keep a roof over my families head without a paycheck for a few weeks. I made a decision to leave when I was offered a return to active duty under the RRORP. I hope to weather the downturn while increasing my retirement check when I retire again. The down side is I'm flying a GD5D (grey desk 5 drawers) for now and no matter how hard I push it just won't fly. The good part is by coming back in I'm making over 6 figures with nearly half of that being tax free (I'm overseas so COLA is good also). I make more now than I did in my corporate gig with my retirement included. So, my advice is to stay in if you can but if not don't throw away the years you spent on AD and find a guard/reserve gig to help with the lean times. Good luck and network as much as you can.
Stay in or find a guard/reserve job to help supplement your income. I retired a few years back and was lucky enough to get a corporate gig right away, in fact I flew with Tgaug at the same company and I agree with everything he said. You can break into the corp world without an 'in' but you have to work at it. When the corp world starting going south last year, and the furloughs started, it was nice to have a retirement to fall back on. I at least knew I could keep a roof over my families head without a paycheck for a few weeks. I made a decision to leave when I was offered a return to active duty under the RRORP. I hope to weather the downturn while increasing my retirement check when I retire again. The down side is I'm flying a GD5D (grey desk 5 drawers) for now and no matter how hard I push it just won't fly. The good part is by coming back in I'm making over 6 figures with nearly half of that being tax free (I'm overseas so COLA is good also). I make more now than I did in my corporate gig with my retirement included. So, my advice is to stay in if you can but if not don't throw away the years you spent on AD and find a guard/reserve gig to help with the lean times. Good luck and network as much as you can.
02-24-2010, 08:28 AM
#25
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: G5 Captain
Posts: 17
What I have found with Mil to Corp guys is it depends upon who is hiring. I once flew for an operation (large pharma) and the CP was a Marine. He would ONLY hire Marines or Navy guys no AF and certainly no civilians.
I also worked for a large Fortune corporation that loved Army helo guys because all new hires needed to be dual rated flying fixed wing and helo.
Then their was one particular operation that gives strong preference to 89th AF guys. They feel that they have the best experience.
I also know of one that only hires civilians who "grew up" in the corporate ranks, not interested in any military folks.
The answer is go figure. It all depends upon who is doing the hiring and their is no way to know what type of experience they are looking for unless you know someone on the inside or just happen to get lucking where your experience fills the square that they are looking for.
Good Luck
I also worked for a large Fortune corporation that loved Army helo guys because all new hires needed to be dual rated flying fixed wing and helo.
Then their was one particular operation that gives strong preference to 89th AF guys. They feel that they have the best experience.
I also know of one that only hires civilians who "grew up" in the corporate ranks, not interested in any military folks.
The answer is go figure. It all depends upon who is doing the hiring and their is no way to know what type of experience they are looking for unless you know someone on the inside or just happen to get lucking where your experience fills the square that they are looking for.
Good Luck
02-24-2010, 11:17 AM
#26
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: B-52H Pilot
Posts: 15
Just joined, first post, looks like a great site. I'm also a B-52 copilot right now and going to ac upgrade soon and had a quick question. I was wondering if it's smart to log "sim instrument" hours or is that looked at by corporate/airlines as a joke or not relevant? I of course log all night time and instrument, but was told by someone at our simulator that its a good idea to log sim instrument as well. Thoughts?
02-24-2010, 11:18 AM
#27
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by g4g5
Then their was one particular operation that gives strong preference to 89th AF guys. They feel that they have the best experience.
Well said, I believe I know the operator you speak of. But the 89th has their ranks beyond this one department.
Love flying with those guys, always great stories!
02-24-2010, 07:13 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 595
Anecdotal Story but hopefully applicable:
My last active duty Commander (AH-64A's with a Civilian background in Fixed Wing - ATP) left active duty and took an office job at a large power company with a flight dept. He found them through Cameron Brooks. After being at the company for 6 months he was offered a job in the flight dept. He is a consummate professional at everything he does, a good stick, and GREAT person. The latter being the largest reason IMHO for the offer. Everyone likes this guy.
Of course, now he's wearing blue in tankers. The Army's loss / USAF's gain.
It may be a long shot, but that is route to goal the OP may use.
My last active duty Commander (AH-64A's with a Civilian background in Fixed Wing - ATP) left active duty and took an office job at a large power company with a flight dept. He found them through Cameron Brooks. After being at the company for 6 months he was offered a job in the flight dept. He is a consummate professional at everything he does, a good stick, and GREAT person. The latter being the largest reason IMHO for the offer. Everyone likes this guy.
Of course, now he's wearing blue in tankers. The Army's loss / USAF's gain.
It may be a long shot, but that is route to goal the OP may use.
02-25-2010, 07:30 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Company Pilot
Posts: 110
AFORF and I were lucky enough to work for a company that had a wide array of pilot back-grounds (we had about 55 pilots in our Deptartment). Of all those pilots we had former A.F. (Fighter, Bomber, VIP, Cargo) Pilots, Former Navy (F/A-18 and C-2 drivers), several Army folks, Airline guys, and Civilian/Corporate guys.
I loved the diversity of the department because we all learned something from each other. We all tought each other something and that was fun! Our top Director was a former AF Fighter guy, but I never saw perferential (sp?)treatment given to another fighter guy. To only hire folks from one background IMHO just stagnates a department. Lets face it we don't know everything (even though we like to think we do sometimes
).
On the other questions: No, I don't log sim time, but that is just me.
I loved the diversity of the department because we all learned something from each other. We all tought each other something and that was fun! Our top Director was a former AF Fighter guy, but I never saw perferential (sp?)treatment given to another fighter guy. To only hire folks from one background IMHO just stagnates a department. Lets face it we don't know everything (even though we like to think we do sometimes
).On the other questions: No, I don't log sim time, but that is just me.
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