Crockrocket94

If you can get a good deal on one, the Encore+ is a great 500 series airplane. Took them until the end to get it right

Otherwise Ive flown the Bravo and its an ok airplane, a bit slow and doesnt climb that great but the systems are not too bad.

It doesnt have singlepoint which is kind of a pain.

Scooter74

thank you everyone for the input.

I hadn't really considered the V/Ultra but will start looking into that option.

I really like the Bravo's and Encores but those are out of the range the owner wants to spend. His budget tops at 1.5, and he would really like something for 1.25-1.35. I have seen some of the earlier V's and Ultras in that range with mid time engines and higher time airframes.

Are there any major considerations to look into when looking at 10,000+ hr airframes? What are the overhaul costs for the V/Ultra engines? (I believe I was told 500K each for the II engines) What does the 10,000 hr inspection run on the II/V/Ultra?

I ahve also seen a few Beech 400's in his range. Any thoughts on that plane? We will be flying out of a 4100' strip, will any all of these planes be capable of this?

How do the citations handle icing?

thanks again for all the input.

sabreflyr

I have about 2000 hours in the Beechjet and I would not recommend this airplane for every day ops with a 4100' runway. I occasionally use a 4000' runway, but it is a short flight and we are light when we do it and the runway has to be dry.

BoilerUP

As sabre said, 4100' is going to require a straight-wing Citation if you want to go anywhere of distance down the road...and with your budget you're looking at a C-II or S/II.

$1M to overhaul the JT15D-4 is highway robbery...with a consultant such as EMS you should be in 700k range, maybe a hair less, out the door.

The Citation II handles icing just fine...everybody hates on boots but they work GREAT and you don't have a hot wing robbing power when you're not accumulating ice. The bleed air windshield heat is the worst part of the sytem IMO and fogging is fairly common if descending from high altitude into a warm, humid destination.

The C-II also does well with 0.4" of clear ice from FZRA all over the airplane...ask me how I know <scared>

Scooter74

thank you again, someone told the owner that the beechjet was a much better choice and that they fly in and out of his airport all the time. I thought it seemed a bit tight, but now I will have some information to back to him with.

Can anyone tell me about the Branson GW mod, such as what exactly they do to the plane, how much gain in weight you get, cost, any increase inspections etc?

BoilerUP

Here's more info on the Gross Weight mod: New Flight

Basically, if you've had a rather common brake SB accomplished, its just paperwork...but you shorten the number of landings some life-limited parts are good for.

The downside to this mod is your plane becomes a bastard stepchild to Cessna, and factory Citation Service Centers won't touch the gear/brakes of your plane. That said, Duncan, West Star, Stevens, Banyan, etc. will be more than happy to service those airplanes.

Scooter74

Are there any other "must have" mods we should look for?

What is a realistic cruise speed/FF for a 800-1000 nm trip with 2 pilots 3-4 passengers? (II/V/Ultra)

I know that this number can vary greatly from one specific plane to the next but what are the average ball park ops costs per hour for a II/V/Ultra?

thanks

BoilerUP

You'll definitely want Freon AC and the Aft Baggage mod.

As far as DOCs...these are rough for a Citation II (Conklin shows a higher figure, but this is very close to what we experienced):

180gph average burn
$250/hr for engines
$250/hr for maintenance (parts & labor)

We cruised at FL360-390 for flights about 550nm+ in duration and 1200/900/850 seemed to work pretty well for fuel flows; if you cruise in the lower 30s expect to see roughly 1300/1100/1000. In the upper 30s 350-360KTAS is all you'll get; in the low 30s expect 370-375 KTAS.

Our airplane didn't have the gross weight increase, so 13.3k was our MTOW and our airplane couldn't top off tanks even with no passengers. At that MTOW, and using 185kt to 0.47M, then 500fpm the last 2000' to level-off for climb profile, you'll get to FL370 in roughly 30 minutes. It'll take you roughly 10 minutes to accelerate to ~0.60M if at 104.0 N1 MCT, and by 20 minutes after level you'll be at 0.62M...which is all you should expect in the upper 30s in a Citation II.

Longest flight I did was SAT-HXD @ 931nm great circle with two pax and bags for passengers & crew. Blocked out with 4400lb, direct (slow) climb to FL390, and IIRC we landed with 1100lb. Obviously if your airplane has the Branson/Newflight mod your fuel/payload capability will be greatly increased beyond what we had.

Assuming a ZFW under 10,000lb (which in our plane was two crew and 5 200lb passengers plus baggage for all), the New Flight mod would let you block out with full tanks...which should let you make 1000nm trip with IFR reserves and a <100nm alternate against all but maybe winter headwinds.

Scooter74

Well, sounds like you get your moneys worth for the GW mod. If the planes we are looking at don't have it already, any idea what it costs to add? Time to complete?

Anyone with info on the V or Ultra? 2 pilots, 4 passengers, avg bags and 900-1000nm trip what type numbers could I realisticly expect to see? (TAS/FF/Time to Climb/preferred altitudes etc.)

Boiler, thanks for all the information. It has really helped me narrow down the list of planes to show the owner.

jumppilot03

Im in a 560 Ultra. Early serial number with a lighter BOW (no airshow/entertainment or single point fueling) Our BOW is 9999. So here are our numbers for a 1000nm trip. Todays 1010nm trip with a 77kt headwind would take us 3:10 and burn 3891lbs assuming we stay at fl40. We typically would go up to fl430 an hour or so into the flight.
BOW 9999lbs
alt fuel 1200lbs
fuel burn 3891lbs
4 pax 190lbs = 760lbs
Ramp weight 15850lbs. Max ramp weight 16,500lbs
To Weight 15,650lbs. Max to Weight 16,300

Without the charts in front of me, I would guess you could complete this trip off of a 4100ft runway if it were below 1000ft. msl and not over 80 degrees or contaminated.

The straight V should have relatively similar numbers, With ramp and to weight 200lbs less.

Any more questions?