Scooter74

Deadstick,

AVBuyer dot com has a performance comparison page for jets. Follow links at the top of the home page. I can not attest to the accuracy of the numbers but it's a start.


Can anyone tell me if there are any companies other than serria with a STC for the aft baggage mod? Who has the best product? What are the differences (price/installation time etc)

Thank you

Captain Krusty

I have info for a CE-501 with the Eagle II mod. if you want any info regarding that plane.

wwoltosz

This #&%*! web site lost about 20 minutes of typing by telling me I wasn't logged in when I clicked on Submit Reply - yet it said "Logged in as ____" at the top of the screen. When I tried to go back, it was all gone. Grrrrr . . . .


Anyway, I was trying to tell you that I did some major modifications to my panel when I bought a 550/551 three years ago:

Sierra glareshield mod to move the annunciator panel up
Garmin 530W (16 watt comm transmitter)
Garmin 430W (16 watt comm transmitter)
Garmin GMX-200 MFD
Jepps electronic charts on the GMX-200
Garmin XM/NEXRAD receiver
Garmin 330 Mode S
Garmin 327 Mode C
Sandel 4.5" EADI
Sandel 4.5" EHSI
New DVD entertainment system
110 VAC inverter and outlets for club seating
Sierra pneumatic lift forward baggage doors
Sierra radome mod

I've put about 530 hr on it in three years, flying from California to as far as Boston, NYC, Atlanta, Orlando, etc. One fuel stop each way unless the winds are absolutely terrible westbound, then I might need two (very rare).

I plan for 1400 pph/1000 pph/950 pph at FL350 eastbound and FL340 westbound at 360 kts TAS, and that works out very well. Climb at 200-220 depending on the day and airport, with T.O. weight typically in the 12,000-12,500 range unless I'm going somewhere close, then lower.

The Garmin WAAS upgrade does require new antennas and sending the boxes back to the factory - just did one on an L-39.

I can definitely recommend the panel setup - single pilot operations are far easier than when I flew a Duke (and C210/P210) coast-to-coast about 20 years ago with VOR/DME/RNAV and LORAN. Much, much easier than the original panel. I just finished the Single Pilot Waiver course and check ride two days ago in the sim with the old panel, and although I did it in the sim, I would not want to fly single pilot for real in a busy environment or tricky weather without a moving map display. With the Sandel EHSI, I see my approaches on the HSI as well as on the 530 and GMX-200.

Now that I have the Waiver, I'll convert the 551 back to a 550 (I did the reverse when I bought it - just paperwork) so I can go up to 13,300 lb. Someday I'll sell this one and move up to a V, Ultra, or Encore (I hope!), but for now, this one has been a sweet airplane to fly and it will suit me for a while.

I'm happy to send pics of the panel - there's also one here:

FlightAware > Photo of Cessna 551 Citation (N5WT)

I hope you find what you're looking for, but I think you may be underestimating overhaul costs - you may end up spending $1.2 MM or more just on the overhauls.

Walt

Scooter74

Thank you for the reply Walt, great information.

Can I ask why you were flying so light? (doesn't the plane have a max gross of 14.5?). Were you flying full fuel and only yourself? Do you have any idea how much the numbers would change for the typical flight being closer to Max Gross?

Where did you have your engines overhauled? What factors did we miss to see such a vast difference in overhaul cost?

Thanks
S

wwoltosz

In a 551, you're limited to 12,500 lb T.O. weight (12,700 ramp weight). The exact same airplane, if re-registered as a 550 (nothing changes but paperwork), will normally be legal up to 13,300 T.O. weight (13,500 ramp weight). With a Sierra (formerly Branson) mod (I think it's mostly, if not all, wheels, brakes, and tires), you can go up to 14,500 T.O. weight (14,700 ramp weight). But you still have the same engines, so operating with that much weight will require some caution when you're at higher DA's. Lose an engine that heavy at higher DA and you might find your climb rate is almost nil.

For single pilots without the Waiver, you cannot go over 12,500 lb T.O. weight and you can't fly a 550 as a single pilot (only a 551). Until Friday when I finished the course and check ride, I did not have the Waiver. So I had to stay below 12,500 lb. To get into the Waiver course requires minimum 500 hours turbine time in airplanes (helicopters don't count), Commercial AMEL certificate, and Class II medical.

Walt

BoilerUP

Converting a 550 to a 551 required a Phase 1-5...hopefully it isn't the same going the other way but I'm sure it is.

Ouch.

wwoltosz

You're absolutely right - when I bought the airplane 3 years ago, it had just gone through Phase 1-5 in San Antonio. When the FSDO guy came over to see the airplane for the conversion he said that it was a good thing that it had not flown even once around the pattern since the inspections were completed, or it would have required a new Phase 1-5. How dumb is that?!!

I just came out of Phase 5 last month - and yes, the plane has flown a few hours since then. If I need to do Phase 1-5 all over again, it's going to stay a 551. Doesn't really matter that much, since I need to buy fuel at least once for an east coast trip either way. Fortunately, I can usually get it at Mosby, MO (KGPH), Weatherford, OK (KOJA), Borger, TX (KBGD), or Wellington, KS (KEGT) at a great price, and each place provides a crew car to go to town for lunch.

Walt

Scooter74

Walt,

What are your average hourly operating costs? Insurance?

S

wwoltosz

I estimate a bit under $1,000/hr including hangar, insurance, maintenance and inspections, annual simulator training, and fuel. That's based on about 170 hr/year. I don't have to pay for a pilot/crew.

Walt

BoilerUP

That's way, WAY low in my experience...especially if you're including fixed costs in the figure like hangar & insurance in that figure. If you're getting by for that little hourly cost for that few annual hours in a legacy 500-series Citation, you're a very fortunate operator!

Average block fuel burns of 180gph (very typical in legacy 550) put you around $700/hr alone...and on our airplane (1983 model) we budgeted about $250/hr for engines and $250/hr for parts & labor. Our plane was immaculately maintained, but we had many small but recurring issues that were quite pricey (multiple failed copilot vacuum AIs, multiple underwing fuel panel leaks, etc).

In 2008, we paid under $12k for $2.2M hull/$10M liability insurance on our airplane with both named PICs around 3000tt.

Recurrent at Simcom MCO was about $5500, with PIC initials running somewhere in the $12k ballpark.