Scooter74

I completely forgot about roll steering...thanks

I will check on that ASAP.


Any idea what the install would cost for the new wiring and antenna for the WAAS? I know I can get the new boxes for about 3K each, but i can't seem to get anyone to give me an idea of what it costs for the other stuff in a Pressure vessel install.

BoilerUP

Any reputable shop (Duncan, WestStar, etc) should be able to get you an estimate for a Garmin WAAS install in a matter of one or two days.

ce650

I did my SIC ride at Simcom when the sim was in MIA! This was back when I worked for a 135 outfit and we had 3 pilots in the citations leave all at once to Netjets. I had 460TT with only 90 Multi at the time. The checkride was screwey because I was in left seat for all my training and checkride day my instructor says I have to do the ride from the right seat! I did it and passed it with that d#@mn 172 gyro on the right side so dont sweat the ride.

2 years later they had the new building in MCO and I did my ATP ant PIC type there. Boiler is correct with the circle at JFK but you will fly it with the auto pilot on so it's no big deal. V1 cuts take way more rudder than you think and they had an instructor that taught to use the auto pilot for them (he's no longer there I believe).

It's a great plane to fly and very forgiving, have fun with it and enjoy the training.

BoilerUP

I can't see any way the factory autopilot in the Citation II will be GPSS-capable...that thing might have been the bee's knees in 1983 but is pretty antiquated in 2010.

Somehow I missed this:

You can source CESNAV/CPCALC (flight planning & AFM performance), and CLCALC (w&b) directly from Cessna which is a very accurate & intuitive program. CPCALC will give you performance down to the degree/foot/pound...but for the $80/mo or so it costs I'd highly recommend subscribing to APG for runway analysis, at least until you get a feel for what the airplane will do and what you're comfortable doing and DEFINITELY if you intend to operate out of mountainous terrain airports.

That said, operating part 91 you'd probably be served just as well using Fltplan.com's profile (it is fairly accurate, and if you do trend monitoring your first couple dozen flights you can tweak it to what you observe) for your day-to-day flight planning and an Excel W&B spreadsheet created with data from your own AFM.

Again we didn't have the IGW mod, but I never experienced getting anywhere close to having our Citation II out of CG limits, even with 7 passengers and being bulked out on cargo. In that regards, the plane was very load-forgiving...

usmc-sgt

boiler-
On the fltplan profile for the II it has no fuel burns..

Do you just enter hourly on the II or did you go through and enter burn for each specific alt?

I was told 1400 first hour, 1000 second and then 800/hr for every hour thereafter. Does that sound about right?

BoilerUP

I don't know about those FFs, USMC.

I had a nuts-on Fltplan.com profile for our Citation II that had been heavily tweaked, and I thought I had just modified the 'stock' profile...but I guess not. I'm sure you can get someone to hook you up with an accurate profile on PPW...

The fuel flows on my mostly unused DUATS profile are 1300/900/900...but what I posted earlier in this thread (1200/900/850 for a majority of flights in the mid-upper 30s and 1300/1100/1000 for a majority of flights in the mid-20s through low-30s) are actually observed fuel flows from our ops.

1400 for the first hour is probably realistic with a departure weight taking advantage of the IGW mod which would restrict climb capability, combined with a high-speed (vs. a high rate) climb.

Only way you're going to see 800pph total burn third hour is cruising at or above FL390, below mid-weight, with a power setting below MCT...and the Citation II doesn't really get above FL390 very easily.

usmc-sgt

Good info..we dont have a plane yet but should here in the coming weeks so I am just doing a bit of homework beforehand.

Looking at flightaware it looks like most IIs hang around in the high 20s to low 30s. Where do they generate the best TAS/fuel burn compromise? I am assuming it is in the high 20s to low 30s where I see them.

BoilerUP

A lot of people like to cruise the II at King Air altitudes because TAS is the highest there...and they sacrifice a LOT of fuel burn for just a little extra speed. IMO, that's not a very efficient utilization of the airframe.

From FL280-320, expect to see absolutely no more than 380KTAS and a fuel burn in the vicinity of 1200pph. At FL350-380, your TAS will drop to the 360KTAS range but your fuel flows drop to around 950pph. I imagine an aircraft taking advantage of the IGW mod would see marginally higher fuel flows and slower speeds.

Over our two milkrun segments (531nm and 579nm), simply cruising in the mid-upper 30s with a more aggressive climb and descent profiles not only saved us an average 250 pounds per segment, but knocked 3 minutes off our average flight time.

Scooter74

...Man thanks all this is great info, keep feeding it too me. I checked with the Broker, and he said that the auto-pilot was roll steer capable (of course who knows how correct he is). It is the original sperry so I don't know if a there is or is not a mod unit whcih allows for this. I will do some more digging and report back.

My "potential" employer has found a very nice one, only draw back is the plane doesn't have the AFT baggage mod or Serria Nose. Any idea on costs for these items? In your opinion are they necessary/worth while mods?

Do all the Citation II's ahve Speed brakes?

BoilerUP

http://www.sijet.com/Img/Sierra_2009_WebCatalog.pdf

Yes, I believe so.

I might have spoken out of school on the roll steer for the Citation II autopilot...we had a KLN90B and had a push selector to use GPS or ground-based navaids for the autopilot NAV mode.