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-   -   08 may ae (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/103022-08-may-ae.html)

FL370esq 05-22-2017 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2367318)
So if the A positions are not awarded, then they will not be offered to new hires, right? The language addresses FO positions unassigned. So how will these positions be filled? Can't find any language to address this.

I would guess they re-poat them on the next AE and hope for, in the words of Borat, "great success."

sailingfun 05-22-2017 08:02 AM


Originally Posted by tunes (Post 2367352)
reason given is 'training waterfall' you know, something they should have known about before posting 160 positions.....but i guess we shall see tomorrow.

Actually it's not something they should have known nor is it a big concern. Until they know the exact mix of short verses long course pilots bidding into the 350 category they will not know how many crews they can train. The bid was posted using a high assumption for short course slots. If they don't get enough 330 guys bidding over they will reduce the awards.
At that point they will look for offsite capacity and post a cleanup bid if available sim time can be located.

notEnuf 05-22-2017 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by FL370esq (Post 2367372)
I would guess they re-poat them on the next AE and hope for, in the words of Borat, "great success."

I get that but I don't want to see "new to Delta" pilots denied this opportunity at the discretion of the company. If they meet the FARs they should be awarded the position they bid. Contract compliance is a lot to ask, I realize. :D

The result of reduced rewards is a perpetual bid larger than is needed to get the result they are looking for, rather than make the positions more attractive.

Xray678 05-22-2017 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2367374)
Actually it's not something they should have known nor is it a big concern. Until they know the exact mix of short verses long course pilots bidding into the 350 category they will not know how many crews they can train. The bid was posted using a high assumption for short course slots. If they don't get enough 330 guys bidding over they will reduce the awards.
At that point they will look for offsite capacity and post a cleanup bid if available sim time can be located.

On the other hand, there are airplanes being delivered over the next year. They will need crews. They may not award all 160 A350 crews, but I bet they come pretty close.

tunes 05-22-2017 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2367374)
Actually it's not something they should have known nor is it a big concern. Until they know the exact mix of short verses long course pilots bidding into the 350 category they will not know how many crews they can train. The bid was posted using a high assumption for short course slots. If they don't get enough 330 guys bidding over they will reduce the awards.
At that point they will look for offsite capacity and post a cleanup bid if available sim time can be located.

i'm obviously no expert but i believe they were more counting on the 747 pilots to bid over to the 350 and they didnt get the desired result so changing the numbers.

Chakerik 05-22-2017 08:22 AM


Originally Posted by tunes (Post 2367390)
i'm obviously no expert but i believe they were more counting on the 747 pilots to bid over to the 350 and they didnt get the desired result so changing the numbers.

Too many 747 guys bid 88A positions:D

FL370esq 05-22-2017 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2367376)
I get that but I don't want to see "new to Delta" pilots denied this opportunity at the discretion of the company. If they meet the FARs they should be awarded the position they bid. Contract compliance is a lot to ask, I realize. :D

The result of reduced rewards is a perpetual bid larger than is needed to get the result they are looking for, rather than make the positions more attractive.

The contra-argument is that the PWA does not require the company to offer unfilled positions to new hires. The PWA says "may" versus "shall." Unfilled Capt positions were probably beyond the realm of consideration when the PWA language was drafted which is why the current language only addresses unfilled FO positions.

notEnuf 05-22-2017 08:49 AM


Originally Posted by FL370esq (Post 2367403)
The contra-argument is that the PWA does not require the company to offer unfilled positions to new hires. The PWA says "may" versus "shall." Unfilled Capt positions were probably beyond the realm of consideration when the PWA language was drafted which is why the current language only addresses unfilled FO positions.

Yup, but they still need to attract pilots for these positions, internally then. More June - August vacation weeks, better trips, more schedule flexibility, and of course more pay would do it. Instead they attempt to limit sick usage and get rid of shorter trips that lend themselves to flexibility.

Swapping, dropping and adding 4+ day trips is nearly impossible. Add the removal of open time for OE and the schedule has more value than the pay for FOs considering upgrade. Reap what you sow.

gloopy 05-22-2017 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by astroglider (Post 2367236)
Their Optimizer schedule builder has made the NB categories so awful nobody wants to bid them. This push they have for less system credit will cost them money in the end.

This is a huge part of it. The spastic "just in time" MBA trend of mandatory plane changes also plays a role. Looks good on paper, and that's all that matters.

FL370esq 05-22-2017 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2367409)
Yup, but they still need to attract pilots for these positions, internally then. More June - August vacation weeks, better trips, more schedule flexibility, and of course more pay would do it. Instead they attempt to limit sick usage and get rid of shorter trips that lend themselves to flexibility.

Swapping, dropping and adding 4+ day trips is nearly impossible. Add the removal of open time for OE and the schedule has more value than the pay for FOs considering upgrade. Reap what you sow.

I agree....once it gets bad enough, things will change. However, I don't think a few (rumored to be) "unfilled" M88A/B717A vacancies are causing the company to rethink things at this point.

We'll have a better idea once the award is posted. Definitely interesting times, that's for sure. 😊


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