The real issue is how do you define "restoration?"

Is "restoration" every reserve being on 24/7 short call, like it was several decades ago?

Is it every reserve being on short call at 0300 on your first on call day...like it was 20 years ago when I started here? (imagine if we negotiated that now; riots would ensue)

Is it not being able to bid for CQ, nor have vacation slide, nor being able to positive space deviate from DH?

Is it ATL commuters having to pay for their own hotel for all training, because a hotel is only provided for "training away from your base?"


Would all those guys on Chit Chat (I assume, as I have never once been to that toxic site) prefer to go back to those "good ol' days" just to get a traditional DB back (which WILL be terminated again) and claim "restoration?"

I surely hope not. The "good ol' days?" I think nyet. Give me the good newer days, and lets all work to make them even better.


Edit: I realize that *some* of the old days truly did have some superior elements, including a DB that at that time paid out reliably. But pining for the good old days is a fool's errand. It ain't happening, and focusing on the past at the expense of a possibly superior future is pointless.

Retiree health insurance is understandable from your perspective. I think with the federal government in turmoil over the future of healthcare, there isn't clarity on the need. The age 65 retirement dove tails with Medicare and with the company hoping to retain pilots to age 65 to staff the airline, I see this a potentially expensive ask for an aggregate group that is getting younger. Just my $.02.

While we're on the subject, the pay raise for next contract should be in the form of higher DC. Helps younger folks max out earlier in their career and gets older folks maxed out earlier in the calendar year which would be an effective pay raise.
http://oaklandice.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/animal-house-speech_2.jpg

As a military retiree I [for the moment] have pretty great healthcare. There are quite a few of us at DL.

Consequently healthcare isnt a super high contract priority for me. I concede that I may be shortsighted on this. What changes do your foresee that would motivate this chunk of our pilot group?

First is my first kid was born in the mid 90's and it cost me nothing. By the time my last kid was born my wife said if cost us this much we would have only had one. This has been a huge erosion of QOL that seems to go unnoticed.

My first kid was born at my former regional several years ago. Cost me $15. My second was born while at Delta. Cost me better than $6000.

I've been saying this for as long as I've been here. What's the point of making so much money if we have to spend large chunks of it on our own healthcare?

If the company won't talk about lowering premiums and deductibles, one option is to propose they fully fund the HSAs to the max every year without these silly metrics to meet.

There are also quite a few of us here at DL who are not military or military retirees. Healthcare is a super high contract priority for a lot of us. Delta is now hiring a lot (70%+) of regional/non-military guys who do not have the healthcare options that you and others have had in the past. We want healthcare and we want it at a reasonable price.

As WhiskeyDelta said (and I have no idea what regional he worked for) but I had a child at my regional airline and from pregnancy to birth it cost me a single co-pay of $15.

At Delta that same birth is in excess of $5,000. Premiums here are insanely high, coverage is not good, and deductibles are high as well.

In future contracts you are going to see a lot more of us who treat insurance as a big ticket item.

We basically have catastrophic coverage through UHC. Totally unacceptable.

Add up the cost of your regional PPO premiums plus the $15 you spent vs the HSA premiums plus the $6000.

I prefer the tax benefits and flexibility of HSAs vs paying higher premiums on PPOs and then that money is gone forever.

MD-90 going bye-bye?
 

I am paying only about $50 less a month in premiums for the Gold HSA at Delta versus for that PPO plan at my regional. Not even a close comparison. I was spoiled beyond belief with that great plan.

Edit: after the quick math you proposed, it was $5000 cheaper at my regional for a kid. Bottom line, we have room for great improvement in our plans.

Does that $50 difference include your HSA contribution? And is it a comparison of family premium to family premium?

No. Just premiums. The Gold HSA here is $348/mo. The $0 deductible and co-insurance plan there was about $400/mo for a family. Also, it had DAILY chiropractic maintenance visits for just a $15 co-pay per visit. I think I miss that the most.

Again, really no comparison. We sorely lack in healthcare plans. As I've stated way above, this is my number one item next contract cycle. If we can't secure lower premiums and higher coverage. We at least need more funding from the company.

To be clear, don't take any of this to suggest I'd rather be back there. Just pointing out that better does exist and I hope we can make gains going forward.


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You also have to remember that not all military are Active duty retirees. Some are Reserve and ANG and need to have insurance through DAL until Tricare for life kicks in at age 60.

Losing chiropractic coverage is probably for the better. Quackery shouldn't be included

With a statement like that I hope you have experience with one. If you have then you didn't go to a good one.


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If you have never had back issues, you wouldn't understand. Relief without medication is just that. Relief WITHOUT medication. No narcotics is a good thing if you want to fly.

With a statement like that, I hope you have experience with narcotics. If you do then you didn't use a good one.

.....just couldn't resist! [emoji6]


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Physical Therapy is science based

Vicodin was the wonder drug of the 90's. Got me a 2 weeks off one summer. Getting high and flying are two different things... unless your in the Denver airport. :D

Physical therapy and massage are distinct from chiropractic "medicine"

My guess is you aren't open to acupuncture or other ancient medical treatments. I could be wrong and sorry if I am, but I too once thought little of alternative medicines. Now I'm more of a "whatever works for you" thinker.

I'm not saying cancer is cured by hypnosis but I have a 66 year old relative that uses THC instead of narcotic pain killers. And I'm OK with that. :eek: :)

There are also quite a few of us that are not military retirees. I think this is an area of our contract that could benefit greatly in the next contract. Let's face it, contract 2016 was all about the money. IMO contract 2019 will a more balanced approach to improvements. Better healthcare for active employees and retirees is a way to extract value without having to pay income tax on it.

Every pilot will have the opportunity to fill out a survey for the next contract. When that data is examed and an opener is crafted, we will see the (general) will of the pilot group.

Denny

MD-90 = healthcare

I thought it meant phychiatric care;)

Anyone that flew the 88 for more than a year should get free dental for life from all that rattle/chatter.

I tries to be very careful in my post. To avoid a split. I'm sure there are changes that would benefit mil retirees as well. I actually liked the VEBA idea [though not as it was presented most recently] and could imagine changes that would ve cery beneficial to all. Just dont know what they would be.

I enlisted when I was 18 and left 26 years later to Tricare. So Im ignorant.
I know nothing of civilian healthcare, but was kind of horrified at Delta's plans during indoc. I certainly agree it should be better, even if it doesnt apply directly to me.

I love idea of greater total value that comes tax free.

Except for CQ....I always get a room on Delta dimes!:cool:

I live 25 minutes from the lot.

So you would rather stay in a hotel verses driving 25 minutes home??? Don't you get enough of hotels in this job?

True....but having the GF over to the house always rubs the wife the wrong way....'knowatimean'? :D

I can see where that would be a problem!

In SLC, YMMV...:D

Studying! (GASP!) Is easier at the hotel than at home.... I don't spend the entire time there, but sometimes, being away from home is necessary!:cool:

Gleaned this from another thread. It was in a request Delta is making to extend the use of the 88. I had been looking for an 'official' retirement schedule. Of course this will soon change I'm sure.

Ok so how do I add a pic here?

I'm sure we could get regional exemptions. NYC and ATL may be too high density and precision demanding by then, but DTW, MSP, CVG, IND and many other hubs and focus cities (and the vast majority of the outstations they serve) won't need to be anywhere near 0.0000000001nm precision or whatever the white paper fantasy is this week.

We had wobbly needle DC-9's a half decade or so ago. The 88/90 is way, way accurate enough for the overwhelming vast majority of markets in the country for many more years.

This should be a very easy exemption to get if we end up needing it. We'll just have to accept a few off limits markets. Big deal.

The ADSB requirement has nothing to do with navigation or approach requirements. It is essentially a new form of transponder that data links lots of info to controllers including aircraft position, altitude and airspeed as well as call sign. It is planned to replace radar at some point in the future. Most of Delta's fleet is not ADSB equipped so this is not unique to the MD. Delta just does not want to pay for the install on aircraft that will retire shortly. It appears that Delta is only purchasing ADSB out to meet the 2020 requirement which is sad. From a pilot standpoint all the cool stuff is on the ADSB in feature. ADSB in however is not required for the 2020 mandate.
The FAA has stated repeatedly that there will be no extensions on the 2020 deadline. I guess we will see in 2 years. It's a big cost for light aircraft owners because it requires a certified GPS to feed the aircraft position to the ADSB box. The actual ADSB unit is very low cost.

I think I saw an MD with ADSB on my last rotation...don't remember if it was an 88 or 90. Transponder looked a little different and there was an extra box aft of the acars. Didn't pay much attention to it, that's FO territory!

And USAF and USN aircraft are even further behind Delta in the ADS-B out game. Yeah, I heard 1 January 2020 while I was in the military and the POM slides never had ADSB as a priority that was high enough to be funded. So is the FAA going to stop all military aircraft from flying in 2020? Riiiight!

Well if that's all it is then what's the big deal? Even an expensive GA application is in the 4 figure range, or low 5 figures if they splurge. Even if you add a zero to that (gotta pay to play, obviously), it doesn't even move the needle in a decision of wether or not to retire an airliner.

I heard it's about 80,000 per aircraft. It certainly should not be more then that. You can get a light aircraft equipped for about 4000 now. Keep in mind that in a airliner situation there are software and integration issues.

they're on a few, I've flown a few trips with them fwiw