Let's swap sailingfun for retirement.

Management can have him and we get a retirement. Every contract has its pluses and minuses!

Yeah, let's reduce captain positions and then pay the FO's a little more.

Your horse trading gets us nowhere. (just in case that wasn't obvious)

 

The pay rate for a handfull of planes as a top priority?

Not saying its not something to have in the mix....but i can think of a lot of more widely important compensation improvements that are way ahead in what should be priorities...let alone 'top' ones.

 

To follow on with Bobs logic which I 100% agree with here is a quote:

"The good ole days weren't always so good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."

So things were great when we had, wait for it............................7 aircraft fleet-wide paying the top rate?

C'mon guys the sky is not falling.

Scoop

PS - Bonus points for quote identification.

 

By handful of planes you meant our biggest widebody fleet right? The same type that pays the highest rate at all our peers.


And sailngfun no one said anything about giving up relief captains, you are just trained to think like that.

 

Negative. See above^^^



Agreed, not my top priority but it's in the mix. Just because we are discussing it, does not mean it's our top priority. My top priority will be tightening down scope/JV.

What will be one of the top issues for the company come 2019? I'm guessing training. Would banding the WBs reduce training guys who are chasing the $$$? Would a 3 tiered band be helpful as well? I'm not sure, but it's worthy of discussion.

 

a lot dont realize that a 5% rate increase and an added week of vacation actually pays more than a 15% rate increase. pay should definitely be important and we should band our widebodies since we have so few of them, but QOL is #1

 

Getting the 321 to 7ER might benefit more people

 

the ER is pretty underpaid

 

Not biggest...but most numerous ....maybe. But as Scoop recalled this group has in rhe past been far too narrow in defining priorities and improvements.

Otoh ..my top priority is a limited number of 50% hourly rate overrides.....awarded in inverse alphabetical order by name of course. Yuk.yuk.

 

Funny enough, if you wanted to benefit "more people", putting more FOs on wide bodies and fewer captains would do this (like UAL). Since final average earnings aren't part of any meaningful calculations anymore, pilots do better to earn more money earlier in their career... even at the expense of higher earnings at the end (TVM). Many of today's new hires will never see wide body captain, particularly if they retire at 60.

Of course, paying fewer captains and more FOs would benefit the company greatly without significant adjustment... so there would need to be a corresponding pay increase (or vacation growth) across-the-board just to "break even". Naturally, this next contract we will only accept significant improvement and not breaking even. Fewer people would ultimately become WB captains, but total nest egg for someone with a full career in that model would be larger.

Now, before you quote this post and spew hate my way, I'm not advocating we do this because I know it would harm the dead zoners and divide the pilot group further. Folks at the top didn't benefit from the early-career- elevated - earning potential and they would be harmed. But the idea that what helps "more people" is naturally the right or likely answer doesn't always hold water.