16apr AE SURPLUSES
05-01-2018, 02:28 PM
#171
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Fetal
Posts: 1,148
Originally Posted by Baradium
In a previous crew resources update they already talked about doing exactly this when the 744 category was closed. I'm sure someone will dig it up before too long.
Originally Posted by FL370esq
I still disagree with your analysis. First off, 50 of those displacements were Captains whose seniority, once displaced from their M88, could only hold FO positions on new-hire equipment (7ERB, 320, 73N and B717) so you can throw those 50 out. They were bumping back to a new hire vacancy which has no effect. That left 26 displacements with an actual impact.
Second, I will argue they do have to post secondary displacements if the "displacee" (MD/VD) is going to a category with no posted or created vacancies. The company cannot arbitrarily expand the size of a current category without posting a vacancy for that growth. They can certainly post vacancies that make a category fatter than they need (á la the MOAB) but how can they deny a senior pilot a vacancy in a category at the expense of someone junior solely based on an MD/VD?
Second, I will argue they do have to post secondary displacements if the "displacee" (MD/VD) is going to a category with no posted or created vacancies. The company cannot arbitrarily expand the size of a current category without posting a vacancy for that growth. They can certainly post vacancies that make a category fatter than they need (á la the MOAB) but how can they deny a senior pilot a vacancy in a category at the expense of someone junior solely based on an MD/VD?
I think there are two scenarios at play here. In one, the company displaces X number of pilots into Y category. At this point, the company can either 1. Displace X junior pilots out of Y category and maintain the current pilot count in Y category or 2. Decline to displace X pilots and maintain an overage of X pilots in Y category. What they couldn’t do is allow non-displaced pilots into any category for which a vacancy has been neither posted nor created by the AE process.
In the displacement scenario, I can see how the company could allow category X to expand without any posted vacancies and not risk running afoul of any contractual language. No senior pilot is being denied an award in this scenario, since if the company had elected to displace junior pilots during the displacement of X pilots into category Y, no vacancies would’ve been awarded anyway.
Basically, I disagree with 370’s statement that the company is forced to create secondary displacements if they have posted no vacancies in that category. But 370 is definitely smarter than me on the contract, so if I’m wrong I expect a logical explanation from 370 as to why.
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05-01-2018, 08:44 PM
#172
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by GucciBoy
But 370 is definitely smarter than me on the contract, so if I’m wrong I expect a logical explanation from 370 as to why.
Originally Posted by GucciBoy
I think there are two scenarios at play here. In one, the company displaces X number of pilots into Y category. At this point, the company can...(2). [d]ecline to displace X pilots and maintain an overage of X pilots in Y category.
I will argue that 22.D.1 requires the company to post monthly a complete list of pilots by category and seniority number which establishes a category baseline and 22.D.3 requires that the company post a forecast of pilot staffing by category at the end of the respective conversion window for an AE or displacement bid posting. The difference between the 22.D.1 current "snapshot" and the 22.D.3 "requirements" is what dictates either category vacancies or surpluses. 22.E.1 states how vacancies will be awarded. However, as Sailing and I discussed, 22.E.1 has an exception which states:
"A standing bid preference for an AE will not be awarded if such award, together with any VD/MD(s) for the same category, would create a surplus that would cause a displacement in the category."
In effect, you can't AE into a category if your AE would cause additional displacements after the award of VDs/MDs. It implies there is a limit to the size of the category for an AE/MD otherwise there would be no surplus.
Further, it does not say the company can grow a category solely by filling it with displacement "overages" as you called it. And remember, the company is required to publish the 22.D.3 report before the bid is run, not afterwards.
Originally Posted by GucciBoy
In the displacement scenario, I can see how the company could allow category X to expand without any posted vacancies and not risk running afoul of any contractual language. No senior pilot is being denied an award in this scenario, since if the company had elected to displace junior pilots during the displacement of X pilots into category Y, no vacancies would’ve been awarded anyway.
The PWA is anything but clear on the whole issue so I'm certainly receptive to any guidance contrary to my position but I honestly believe the PWA prohibits the company from arbitrarily growing a category with no posted vacancies in order to "tweak" and accomodate displacements in order to mitigate contingency displacements.
05-02-2018, 08:17 PM
#174
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Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Originally Posted by FL370esq
To put the ball back in your court for a minute, where in the PWA does it say the company is permitted to "maintain an overage"/arbitrarily expand the size of a category without posting vacancies? Can they add 5 pilots? 10 pilots? 50 pilots to the category?
To be clear here, the PWA has to RESTRICT the company from doing it. The PWA limits company actions, anything not covered is their discretion. Lack of anything on the subject means they are free to do so.
05-18-2018, 03:34 PM
#179
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by weasil
Training award dates are posted now.
05-19-2018, 05:17 AM
#180
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: MD88
Posts: 452
Originally Posted by FL370esq
If only they could also get the Projected Category link working. I know, I know....a lot to ask from Delta Technology (as if that ain't a classic oxymoron).
