Short Call QOL Improvement
10-25-2018 | 05:38 AM
#11
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 177
Agreed Scoop.
Sit SC long enough and they eventually get you! Back in August I was called in on the graveyard SC sit at the tailend of my period to cover a mechanical flight where the original flight crew timed out. 1 short leg to an outstation, sleep during the day, dh home that turned into a deviate deadhead ironman. A 9 hr SC would have prevented this.
I actually hate to call the schedulers 2 hours prior to release asking to get off early. Somehow I feel I'm reminding them to use me.
Additionally, if you want to take 2 SCs early in the month and get them out of the way so youre in the next SC bucket (if they really even honor that), this allows you to get them done quicker and potentially commute home on day 2 vs 3.
Sit SC long enough and they eventually get you! Back in August I was called in on the graveyard SC sit at the tailend of my period to cover a mechanical flight where the original flight crew timed out. 1 short leg to an outstation, sleep during the day, dh home that turned into a deviate deadhead ironman. A 9 hr SC would have prevented this.
I actually hate to call the schedulers 2 hours prior to release asking to get off early. Somehow I feel I'm reminding them to use me.
Additionally, if you want to take 2 SCs early in the month and get them out of the way so youre in the next SC bucket (if they really even honor that), this allows you to get them done quicker and potentially commute home on day 2 vs 3.
10-25-2018 | 06:08 AM
#12
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 798
Likes: 26
From: Drivin’ the bus
Can I assume your preference is to sit for 7 9-hour SC's each month instead of 3 12-hr short calls? This is my concern as to where this is going......
Your simply stating that this isn't a job killer doesn't make it true. Can you provide a rationale or elaborate as to as to why I'm wrong? I'm willing to listen to a reasonable, respectful discussion about it, and hopefully I am wrong. But, for now I'm still skeptical.
10-25-2018 | 06:27 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,558
Likes: 0
No. Not sure how my argument translates to "I want longer short calls?" I can see already that I'm in the minority. On that I'll agree. But it doesn't prove I'm wrong either.
Can I assume your preference is to sit for 7 9-hour SC's each month instead of 3 12-hr short calls? This is my concern as to where this is going......
Your simply stating that this isn't a job killer doesn't make it true. Can you provide a rationale or elaborate as to as to why I'm wrong? I'm willing to listen to a reasonable, respectful discussion about it, and hopefully I am wrong. But, for now I'm still skeptical.
Can I assume your preference is to sit for 7 9-hour SC's each month instead of 3 12-hr short calls? This is my concern as to where this is going......
Your simply stating that this isn't a job killer doesn't make it true. Can you provide a rationale or elaborate as to as to why I'm wrong? I'm willing to listen to a reasonable, respectful discussion about it, and hopefully I am wrong. But, for now I'm still skeptical.
If everyone can do only 7 SC in a month they will need more reserves to cover it all. They still will have to cover the regular flying so they can’t reduce regular lines to carry more reserves. I don’t think this will reduce jobs. It might spread more SC to the senior reserves, though. It could require more reserves to cover it, but if it did that I’m sure it wouldn’t be happening.
I just don’t see how it will require less pilots to cover the same amount of time. I can see the concern it will lead to more SC periods per pilot, but they could easily have run everyone out for 7 12-hour periods each month too but that didn’t seem to be a regular occurrence.
10-25-2018 | 06:40 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,556
Likes: 11
Scoop,
Usually I agree with you, but I'll go ahead and take the bait.....
This is bad for pilots. There. Ok, I said it.
Here's my concern. By releasing pilots sooner, this is is an advantage to the company as they can now release you to rest and then assign another short call RAP that much sooner. Big picture, this means more short call coverage with fewer pilots. Translation: "job killer". They have identified an inefficiency which requires more pilots, and are looking to trim the fat.
Obviously the end game for the company is NOT to have the same total number of reserve pilots with shorter Short Calls. It's a way to reduce required headcount and keep essentially the same short call coverage to protect the operation.
I sit Reserve in my category a lot. I live in base and actually put in yellow slips sometimes to be first on short call. I still have never had a month of 7 short calls. Even when I ask for it. With this change, I'm predicting an increase in the number of short call periods per month for those exposed to it.
As far as the guy who can now commute home? I don't think it was a big deal as you could have called and got released early most times. (Intl might be different?) Additionally, now you won't be able to go home anyway because guess what, since you're done earlier, you're back on short call tomorrow morning!
Scoop, as someone who argues against the 30-day bid periods as a job killer, I'm surprised you aren't thinking the same way on this change?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Usually I agree with you, but I'll go ahead and take the bait.....
This is bad for pilots. There. Ok, I said it.
Here's my concern. By releasing pilots sooner, this is is an advantage to the company as they can now release you to rest and then assign another short call RAP that much sooner. Big picture, this means more short call coverage with fewer pilots. Translation: "job killer". They have identified an inefficiency which requires more pilots, and are looking to trim the fat.
Obviously the end game for the company is NOT to have the same total number of reserve pilots with shorter Short Calls. It's a way to reduce required headcount and keep essentially the same short call coverage to protect the operation.
I sit Reserve in my category a lot. I live in base and actually put in yellow slips sometimes to be first on short call. I still have never had a month of 7 short calls. Even when I ask for it. With this change, I'm predicting an increase in the number of short call periods per month for those exposed to it.
As far as the guy who can now commute home? I don't think it was a big deal as you could have called and got released early most times. (Intl might be different?) Additionally, now you won't be able to go home anyway because guess what, since you're done earlier, you're back on short call tomorrow morning!
Scoop, as someone who argues against the 30-day bid periods as a job killer, I'm surprised you aren't thinking the same way on this change?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It's great when you are sitting the actual short call because its 3 less hours, but on the flip side it's going to put more people on short call, and put you on long call sooner--making you ripe for an assignment 3 hours sooner. Even the scheduling committee has said this is a productivity gain for the company and a net negative for the pilot group. It sounds good in theory, but when you actually dig down and look at it, it's not.
10-25-2018 | 06:45 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,553
Likes: 100
From: Road construction signholder
this.
It's great when you are sitting the actual short call because its 3 less hours, but on the flip side it's going to put more people on short call, and put you on long call sooner--making you ripe for an assignment 3 hours sooner. Even the scheduling committee has said this is a productivity gain for the company and a net negative for the pilot group. It sounds good in theory, but when you actually dig down and look at it, it's not.
It's great when you are sitting the actual short call because its 3 less hours, but on the flip side it's going to put more people on short call, and put you on long call sooner--making you ripe for an assignment 3 hours sooner. Even the scheduling committee has said this is a productivity gain for the company and a net negative for the pilot group. It sounds good in theory, but when you actually dig down and look at it, it's not.
And if guys get a LC assignment three hours sooner, who cares? LC assignments are quite civilized. SC not so much. I still take your logic and spin it the other way: do you think that longer SC windows would be a net positive? I'm guessing most guys on reserve would not agree with that.
I guess the real issue is...let's see how this all ends up after a few months before we draw any conclusions. Remember "all reserves will sit 7 SC a month and fly 99 hours!" It didn't exactly end up that way did it?
10-25-2018 | 06:54 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 177
I cant help but laugh at posters against a 9 hr SC!
It's like a criminal is up for early release:
"Sir, your sentence was 12 years, but we are going to reduce it to 9 since the 3 extra years just doesn't add any additional value to the state."
"Oh man! Thats terrible!!! If I'm out early that just means I could get arrested sooner! Please let me stay in jail!!!"
It's like a criminal is up for early release:
"Sir, your sentence was 12 years, but we are going to reduce it to 9 since the 3 extra years just doesn't add any additional value to the state."
"Oh man! Thats terrible!!! If I'm out early that just means I could get arrested sooner! Please let me stay in jail!!!"
10-25-2018 | 06:59 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,551
Likes: 295
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
I cant help but laugh at posters against a 9 hr SC!
It's like a criminal is up for early release:
"Sir, your sentence was 12 years, but we are going to reduce it to 9 since the 3 extra years just doesn't add any additional value to the state."
"Oh man! Thats terrible!!! If I'm out early that just means I could get arrested sooner! Please let me stay in jail!!!"
It's like a criminal is up for early release:
"Sir, your sentence was 12 years, but we are going to reduce it to 9 since the 3 extra years just doesn't add any additional value to the state."
"Oh man! Thats terrible!!! If I'm out early that just means I could get arrested sooner! Please let me stay in jail!!!"
10-25-2018 | 07:01 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,872
Likes: 189
No. Not sure how my argument translates to "I want longer short calls?" I can see already that I'm in the minority. On that I'll agree. But it doesn't prove I'm wrong either.
Can I assume your preference is to sit for 7 9-hour SC's each month instead of 3 12-hr short calls? This is my concern as to where this is going......
Your simply stating that this isn't a job killer doesn't make it true. Can you provide a rationale or elaborate as to as to why I'm wrong? I'm willing to listen to a reasonable, respectful discussion about it, and hopefully I am wrong. But, for now I'm still skeptical.
Can I assume your preference is to sit for 7 9-hour SC's each month instead of 3 12-hr short calls? This is my concern as to where this is going......
Your simply stating that this isn't a job killer doesn't make it true. Can you provide a rationale or elaborate as to as to why I'm wrong? I'm willing to listen to a reasonable, respectful discussion about it, and hopefully I am wrong. But, for now I'm still skeptical.
10-25-2018 | 07:10 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,556
Likes: 11
But with this change the company can assign you no more SC than they already have the ability to assign. Less time on SC is a net positive, no matter how determined some of you are to find the black lining in a silver cloud.
And if guys get a LC assignment three hours sooner, who cares? LC assignments are quite civilized. SC not so much. I still take your logic and spin it the other way: do you think that longer SC windows would be a net positive? I'm guessing most guys on reserve would not agree with that.
I guess the real issue is...let's see how this all ends up after a few months before we draw any conclusions. Remember "all reserves will sit 7 SC a month and fly 99 hours!" It didn't exactly end up that way did it?
And if guys get a LC assignment three hours sooner, who cares? LC assignments are quite civilized. SC not so much. I still take your logic and spin it the other way: do you think that longer SC windows would be a net positive? I'm guessing most guys on reserve would not agree with that.
I guess the real issue is...let's see how this all ends up after a few months before we draw any conclusions. Remember "all reserves will sit 7 SC a month and fly 99 hours!" It didn't exactly end up that way did it?
10-25-2018 | 07:11 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
They could already do that. It's not unusual for me to get a 1000-2200 SC on my first on call day. Later that day, around noon, I get a notification that my SC has been truncated to 1000-1700, and I'm on SC the next day from 0500-1700.
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