Next AE?
04-23-2019, 08:50 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,892
Originally Posted by Dash8Pilot
I have no objection to snagging a green slip that pays 21 hours for only a few hours flying and is easily commutable on both sides.
Being on reserve and getting one dropped on you could be either decent or a kick to the nuts depending on the flights and rest time, and pilot and their opinion of stand ups. But I want them to stay far away from the bid packet. Junior lineholders getting a line full of crappy stand ups is absolutely brutal.
Being on reserve and getting one dropped on you could be either decent or a kick to the nuts depending on the flights and rest time, and pilot and their opinion of stand ups. But I want them to stay far away from the bid packet. Junior lineholders getting a line full of crappy stand ups is absolutely brutal.
We had them at my prior regional. They always ended up getting dropped, then dumped on reserves and. it. sucked.
04-23-2019, 08:56 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
See, this is what I just don’t get. The company can do them right now but......you have to get paid for 2 days...... Why would anyone want to get paid less for this?
Denny
Denny
That is the same question that boggled my mind as well back in 2012. Guys wanted stand-ups to be codified and structured in the contract, and at less pay than what they paid back then and now(10:30).
They actually wanted to take a paycut when flying them in order to get them spelled out in the contract.....It was absurd.
As many others have been saying, the company builds these types of trips all the time right now. I see them quite often in my catagory as well. I have even flown some of them, either as reserve or green slip. They just have to pay 10:30.
They company doesn't want to have to pay 10:30 unless they have no choice/short staffed. And there are actually people out there that are willing to do them for less than 10:30.
Last edited by APCLurker; 04-23-2019 at 09:10 AM.
04-23-2019, 09:10 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by Gspeed
THIS.
We had them at my prior regional. They always ended up getting dropped, then dumped on reserves and. it. sucked.
We had them at my prior regional. They always ended up getting dropped, then dumped on reserves and. it. sucked.
EXACTAMUNDO!!
As someone that has lived reserve at nw when we had bidable stand-ups (as well as at a regional), your's is the precise arguement I made when this issue came up during the 2012 contract.
The notion that only senior guys would bid and fly these because they are just so attactive is a myth... I lived it. I lost count of the number of these trips that I had to fly as a reserve because the guys that supposedly just loved to do those trips were dropping and/or calling in sick for them. I am not saying that they never flew them, but far more will be forced onto people that want nothing to do with them than those that have no experience with them think.
They would not "only be assigned to guys that bid them" as gloppy said. They would end up as reserve trips and some juinior folk would get forced into flying the unbid trips as well.
The company can buiid as many of these trips as they want. They just have to pay 10:30 for them.
Last edited by APCLurker; 04-23-2019 at 09:33 AM.
04-23-2019, 09:16 AM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 226
Anyone who flew for a nwa regional and lived in base knew how good these things could be if you lived in base. Yes there were bad ones, but there were great ones too.
I saw my children every single day for 2 years straight, attended every single event at school they had, was still able to attend stuff on the weekends even if I had to work that night.
I would much rather do a line of lean overs than a line of 4 4 day trips in which one of the days has 4 legs and 8:45 of flying and one of them has no legs all worth 21 hours.
I would also rather do them than redeyes
I saw my children every single day for 2 years straight, attended every single event at school they had, was still able to attend stuff on the weekends even if I had to work that night.
I would much rather do a line of lean overs than a line of 4 4 day trips in which one of the days has 4 legs and 8:45 of flying and one of them has no legs all worth 21 hours.
I would also rather do them than redeyes
04-23-2019, 09:19 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
Yep. There was a proposal a few years ago to adopt published-in-the-bid-package leanovers. I think they would have paid 6.5 hours. The problem was that would have created a revolt--not because leanovers are inherently bad (NWA had them I have been told, and many guys liked them) but because the structure of them as tentatively determined were awful. Up to scheduled two hours of block per leg, with a min six hour layover reducible to three, if my memory serves me correctly. That was a terrible idea. Fortunately the whole idea was shelved, as it should have been.
Yep, spot on (except maybe for the not inherently bad part).
The proposal for the stand-ups in the contract was absolutely terrible. And for 6 some hours of pay. My recollection of the proposal is pretty much the same as yours. It died it's deserved death.
And yes, nw did have them. I flew a bunch as a reserve. More than one with the same capt. that did entire months of them. He looked like death warmed-over.
04-23-2019, 09:21 AM
#117
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,398
Originally Posted by APCLurker
Yep, spot on (except maybe for the not inherently bad part).
The proposal for the stand-ups in the contract was absolutely terrible. And for 6 some hours of pay. My recollection of the proposal is pretty much the same as yours. It died it's deserved death.
And yes, nw did have them. I flew a bunch as a reserve. More than one with the same capt. that did entire months of them. He looked like death warmed-over.
The proposal for the stand-ups in the contract was absolutely terrible. And for 6 some hours of pay. My recollection of the proposal is pretty much the same as yours. It died it's deserved death.
And yes, nw did have them. I flew a bunch as a reserve. More than one with the same capt. that did entire months of them. He looked like death warmed-over.
04-23-2019, 09:32 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by Delta2heavy
Anyone who flew for a nwa regional and lived in base knew how good these things could be if you lived in base. Yes there were bad ones, but there were great ones too.
I saw my children every single day for 2 years straight, attended every single event at school they had, was still able to attend stuff on the weekends even if I had to work that night.
I would much rather do a line of lean overs than a line of 4 4 day trips in which one of the days has 4 legs and 8:45 of flying and one of them has no legs all worth 21 hours.
I would also rather do them than redeyes
I saw my children every single day for 2 years straight, attended every single event at school they had, was still able to attend stuff on the weekends even if I had to work that night.
I would much rather do a line of lean overs than a line of 4 4 day trips in which one of the days has 4 legs and 8:45 of flying and one of them has no legs all worth 21 hours.
I would also rather do them than redeyes
04-23-2019, 09:32 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
For those referencing past experience as valid experience to advocate....ask yourself if in that situation the airline had the labor cost incentive and computing power of delta in structuring such changes to be a benefit to pilots.
04-23-2019, 09:55 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by BobZ
For those referencing past experience as valid experience to advocate....ask yourself if in that situation the airline had the labor cost incentive and computing power of delta in structuring such changes to be a benefit to pilots.
Not sure who you are addressing that post to, those advocating for or against stand-ups. If it's meant for the "against:"
Labor cost incentive and computing power??
I've seen the proposed "structuring" of changes that delta (and alpa) agreed to/came up with using their so-called computing power (and so did herkflyer) during the last time this came up. I was such a benefit to the pilots that it died a deserved death. The results speak for themselves.
If that post was for those in support of stand-ups, well, I guess I am too dense to figure out what you mean.
