Not apples to apples. Korean might not use those jets on routes we fly or would’ve flown. I do agree JV’s aren’t all bad and that we better get used to them. They’re not going away. We have to have the constitution to make the company adhere to the agreement...aka our PEA. But we’ve not done much. If we all would agree and pull in the same direction and direct our displeasure via legal channels, then we’d be better off.

The last JV violation that we won was a joke and pure chump change. 30 million is a rounding error for Delta. So why do you think they continue to break the agreements?

We need to get tougher as a group and stop ***** footing around these violations.

 

DCI did BOS-YHZ but now there are no Delta branded flights. Individual routes and gauge changes over a decade are hardly the point. The fluid movement of ownership and leased airplanes through a JV partner and probable equity partner is. JMHO

 

Here's my biggest concern.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way these JVs are structured in our PWA are all about some type of share of EASKs--either trans-atlantic, trans-pacific, etc. And that's all fine except with WestJet and Aeromexico. If we use the same type of language where (just for example) we get 50% of Canada/US flying, what could (and is) happening is Delta can sell tickets from Denver to China and the flight might go DEN-YVR-PVG with WestJet operating the YVR-PVG leg (and possibly the DEN leg too!). Would that trans-pacific flight even count towards anything seeing as the WestJet/Aeromexico JVs aren't governed under that sort of language?

Also intra US connections can be routed through Canadian airports. Flying CLE-SAN? Book a ticket on Delta and take WestJet from CLE-YYZ-SAN! This type of flying seems easier to address with scope by demanding some sort of equality or ratio of Canada-US flying. The long haul connections through Canada/Mexico seem difficult to protect against though.

 

I confess not to know all 14k+ pilots. But those I do know give me faith that most of us get it. Trip7 and his ilk are a significant minority IMHO.

 

Trip7 isn't fooling anyone. Everyone I come into contact with is on the same page (and that's not HIS page). Just FYI.

 

[QUOTE=Trip7;2884571]

 

Why is that difficult? No DL (or any affiliated) code unless we get "half" (defined as 55% or more) or the better of block hours or ASM's, whichever is more in our favor, and anything long haul they do counts against any other theatre JV we may have. EZ. Little scrappy WestJet needs DL more than DL needs WestJet. We can partner but they can't get the bigger share especially with the potential for labor arbitrage in the "network."

 

I agree with you. We need you on the negotiating committee.

 

Would WestJet/Aeromexico trans-atlantic or trans-pacific flights with Delta pax count against theatre JVs currently?

 

This right here.

If they want to keep violating the contract, it's time to make them bleed when they do.

Time to get EXACTLY what we deserve as a pilot group.