Delta vs Jetblue
12-24-2019, 11:20 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
Couple of questions...
1. Do you see yourself in B6 for 25 more years?
2. Do you think B6 will be able to keep growing and maybe get bigger airplanes?
3. Do you think B6 will merge/acquire by other airline?
Retirements are just starting. Even if you never get to be a 350CA, you’ll be a very senior NB CA. We are hiring 1340 next year and I assume close to 1000 per yr for some time.
Run the numbers, talk to your spouse and kids, then decide. Good luck...
1. Do you see yourself in B6 for 25 more years?
2. Do you think B6 will be able to keep growing and maybe get bigger airplanes?
3. Do you think B6 will merge/acquire by other airline?
Retirements are just starting. Even if you never get to be a 350CA, you’ll be a very senior NB CA. We are hiring 1340 next year and I assume close to 1000 per yr for some time.
Run the numbers, talk to your spouse and kids, then decide. Good luck...
Thanks for the input,
1. B6 in my opinion has an upshot longterm but it's just a guess.
2. Not sure about bigger airplanes but we are starting London and other cities in Europe next year. Probably no widebodies unless there is a change in the board of director level.
3. I think a merger is the only way we will survive long term, but who knows.
How easy is it for a commuter to make extra money the first couple years at Delta?
Does a junior NB guy have to work really hard to get green slips etc?
12-24-2019, 11:50 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by Busdriver16
IAD and DCA
12-24-2019, 12:03 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 100
In the OP’s situation, the only reason I’d leave is if you think the future at B6 is bad.
I got on at Delta at 38 and it’s a great gig but I’ll be retiring at around 2500. That is a bottom feeder wide body guy or a moderately senior narrow body guy.
Joining at 40 today, I bet you won’t crack 3k. That will not get you into the top 10% of most narrowbody A slots.
I’d wager at B6 you’ll have many years in that top 10%.
I got on at Delta at 38 and it’s a great gig but I’ll be retiring at around 2500. That is a bottom feeder wide body guy or a moderately senior narrow body guy.
Joining at 40 today, I bet you won’t crack 3k. That will not get you into the top 10% of most narrowbody A slots.
I’d wager at B6 you’ll have many years in that top 10%.
12-24-2019, 07:36 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,902
Originally Posted by velosnow
Congrats on the offer, without more info on where you want your career to go hard to give specific advice. I got hired here at 37 and in a few short years already have 2,500+ junior to me. Also happen to live in a UAL base and wanted UAL pretty bad. They never called so DAL it was, honestly quite happy the way it has turned out.
The variety of flying, culture (trust me very few are truly Hotel Van Commanders), contract, profit sharing, retirement, well ran company all are good things. Like anything else it isn’t perfect but overall it’s a great place to be.
I realize losing 6 years of seniority/pay at JB would be a daunting prospect but the retirements are just starting to really kick in so if you were to make the jump the time is now. If you want aircraft/flying variety, international flying, etc. I think this could be a good move. Also as a new hire on most fleets you can make decent $$ if you want. On our smallest plane I was easily six figures my second year and close the first one. Hope that sheds some light, good luck and Happy Festivus!
The variety of flying, culture (trust me very few are truly Hotel Van Commanders), contract, profit sharing, retirement, well ran company all are good things. Like anything else it isn’t perfect but overall it’s a great place to be.
I realize losing 6 years of seniority/pay at JB would be a daunting prospect but the retirements are just starting to really kick in so if you were to make the jump the time is now. If you want aircraft/flying variety, international flying, etc. I think this could be a good move. Also as a new hire on most fleets you can make decent $$ if you want. On our smallest plane I was easily six figures my second year and close the first one. Hope that sheds some light, good luck and Happy Festivus!
In a few short years you say? The latest hiring cycle for y’all started 2014. So anyone in 2014-2016 is gonna do way better than someone starting now.
The problem with Delta is ya hired 4,000+ plus since 2014, and the avg age of a new hire is 37. So the math says more than 2,000 pilots today at Delta are below 37. A JetBlue guy starting at 40 is not going to crack to top 3,000. Highly unlikely to hold A350 CA.
Someone else posted a retirement chart that said Delta has 14,400 pilots right now and to be #7,000 based on retirements, that would be year 2031. Half way up the list takes 12 years. That’s a lot to consider. Not sure how 6 yrs at JetBlue looks but a guess is around 50-65% overall? Where would that JetBlue guy be in 12 years? Top 25%?
Being 40 with a wife and 2 kids giving up $260k to go down to $90/hr on probation would have to be a big risk consideration.
12-24-2019, 08:23 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 319
If you are 40 years old, you will be retiring somewhere in 2044. (Not sure when your birthday is.) If it is Jan 1st, you'll be at least #3120. If your birthday is Dec 31st, you'll be at least #2746. That's assuming no one younger than you retires early. This is a really rough guess, but even with just 1% pilot growth per year, our list will be 18,000-19,000 pilots in 2044. (Personally, I think it will be much higher). Since there will be early retirements, let's assume you finish around #2400, out of 19,000. That's 12% system seniority. Our plug 350 Captain is currently 20% system seniority. So yes, I believe you could be a widebody captain in your last few years if you came to Delta now.
Also, just to put it in perspective, there are a lot of retired military guys coming over at 42-45 years old. I was one of them. With 25 years to go, you are still young. The biggest question is can you handle a couple years earning less than you're making now?
Everyone is different but my first five years at Delta:
1) $86,000 (717 FO)....also note, this was under the last contract. Pay has gone up quite a bit since then.
2) $170,000 (717 FO)
3) $214,000 (717 FO / 7ER FO)
4) $202,000 (7ER FO)
5) $265,000 (7ER FO)
That is flight pay, per diem, and profit sharing. Does not include 401k.
Hopefully having some numbers will help you make the right decision.
Also, just to put it in perspective, there are a lot of retired military guys coming over at 42-45 years old. I was one of them. With 25 years to go, you are still young. The biggest question is can you handle a couple years earning less than you're making now?
Everyone is different but my first five years at Delta:
1) $86,000 (717 FO)....also note, this was under the last contract. Pay has gone up quite a bit since then.
2) $170,000 (717 FO)
3) $214,000 (717 FO / 7ER FO)
4) $202,000 (7ER FO)
5) $265,000 (7ER FO)
That is flight pay, per diem, and profit sharing. Does not include 401k.
Hopefully having some numbers will help you make the right decision.
12-25-2019, 05:49 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by Broncos
If you are 40 years old, you will be retiring somewhere in 2044. (Not sure when your birthday is.) If it is Jan 1st, you'll be at least #3120. If your birthday is Dec 31st, you'll be at least #2746. That's assuming no one younger than you retires early. This is a really rough guess, but even with just 1% pilot growth per year, our list will be 18,000-19,000 pilots in 2044. (Personally, I think it will be much higher). Since there will be early retirements, let's assume you finish around #2400, out of 19,000. That's 12% system seniority. Our plug 350 Captain is currently 20% system seniority. So yes, I believe you could be a widebody captain in your last few years if you came to Delta now.
Also, just to put it in perspective, there are a lot of retired military guys coming over at 42-45 years old. I was one of them. With 25 years to go, you are still young. The biggest question is can you handle a couple years earning less than you're making now?
Everyone is different but my first five years at Delta:
1) $86,000 (717 FO)....also note, this was under the last contract. Pay has gone up quite a bit since then.
2) $170,000 (717 FO)
3) $214,000 (717 FO / 7ER FO)
4) $202,000 (7ER FO)
5) $265,000 (7ER FO)
That is flight pay, per diem, and profit sharing. Does not include 401k.
Hopefully having some numbers will help you make the right decision.
Also, just to put it in perspective, there are a lot of retired military guys coming over at 42-45 years old. I was one of them. With 25 years to go, you are still young. The biggest question is can you handle a couple years earning less than you're making now?
Everyone is different but my first five years at Delta:
1) $86,000 (717 FO)....also note, this was under the last contract. Pay has gone up quite a bit since then.
2) $170,000 (717 FO)
3) $214,000 (717 FO / 7ER FO)
4) $202,000 (7ER FO)
5) $265,000 (7ER FO)
That is flight pay, per diem, and profit sharing. Does not include 401k.
Hopefully having some numbers will help you make the right decision.
Merry Christmas!!!
12-25-2019, 05:59 AM
#20
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
In a few short years you say? The latest hiring cycle for y’all started 2014. So anyone in 2014-2016 is gonna do way better than someone starting now.
The problem with Delta is ya hired 4,000+ plus since 2014, and the avg age of a new hire is 37. So the math says more than 2,000 pilots today at Delta are below 37. A JetBlue guy starting at 40 is not going to crack to top 3,000. Highly unlikely to hold A350 CA.
Someone else posted a retirement chart that said Delta has 14,400 pilots right now and to be #7,000 based on retirements, that would be year 2031. Half way up the list takes 12 years. That’s a lot to consider. Not sure how 6 yrs at JetBlue looks but a guess is around 50-65% overall? Where would that JetBlue guy be in 12 years? Top 25%?
Being 40 with a wife and 2 kids giving up $260k to go down to $90/hr on probation would have to be a big risk consideration.
The problem with Delta is ya hired 4,000+ plus since 2014, and the avg age of a new hire is 37. So the math says more than 2,000 pilots today at Delta are below 37. A JetBlue guy starting at 40 is not going to crack to top 3,000. Highly unlikely to hold A350 CA.
Someone else posted a retirement chart that said Delta has 14,400 pilots right now and to be #7,000 based on retirements, that would be year 2031. Half way up the list takes 12 years. That’s a lot to consider. Not sure how 6 yrs at JetBlue looks but a guess is around 50-65% overall? Where would that JetBlue guy be in 12 years? Top 25%?
Being 40 with a wife and 2 kids giving up $260k to go down to $90/hr on probation would have to be a big risk consideration.
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