sailingfun

The union is speaking to the pilot group as if we are children. The company however is just as insulting in their failure to provide a table position after 9 months of negotiations. Their failure to do so implies they intend to turn this into a multi year process.
The union needs to release our table position and costing now before mediation locks things down. That will allow informed pilots to make a decision if our union positions are reasonable as a base for negotiations.
I once sold a speciality car that had a very defined value around 28,000. I asked 28,500 as mine was exceptional. The first buyer showed up and offered 19,000. I said no thanks goodbye. He said aren’t you going to make a counter offer. I said not to 19,000. He said everyone makes a counter. I said Ok, 29,000. He said that’s ridiculous you’re asking 28,500. I said no more ridiculous than you offering 19,000.

RonRicco

I know it is fun to get spooled up over what I can only describe as spin, but Sailing is correct here. Everything is interconnected. If say for example, the company is working within a billion dollar budget, they are going to have to find which items are truly “must haves” and which ones are throw aways before committing to something that might eat up their budget. So the fact that they have only agreed to 28m has no bearing on what they are actually willing to spend.

Remember. WE are the ones that wanted the mediation clause in the contract. We welcomed mediation for TA2. Assuming we are in the zone, we should be welcoming it this time.

sailingfun

What you state is correct however the companies request for mediation prior to even putting a full opener on the table is very unusual. It is clearly designed to push negotiations to after this summer. I may however change my opinion on that after seeing our opener.
Keep one thing in mind now that we are going to mediation. The NMB has always worked from what they call the zone of reasonableness. They define that zone as how your working conditions and compensation measure up to your peers in the same industry.

sailingfun

Here is a good explanation of the mediation process. It’s also why we can now expect as multi year process as the NMB is not likely to devote any real assets toward our mediation.


Once the union and the company have entered mediation, a professional NMB mediator is assigned to handle the case. The federal mediator has statutory authority of the negotiation process and gains full control of the bargaining schedule. The NMB has a staff of about a dozen professional mediators, two of which are senior mediators, to handle all their rail and airline cases, and there are typically 90-110 mediation cases open at any given time. NMB mediators have decades of experience, some times as much as 20 years of contract work as a union official or a company labor relations executive before joining the NMB. Several are former pilots or flight attendants with previous MEC experience.

With only a dozen mediators to work on hundreds of rail and airline employee groups, the NMB places a high premium on only assigning mediators to a frequent bargaining schedule when it believes the union and management are close to what it calls the “zone of reasonableness” – in plain terms, when the two sides have moved away from their opening positions, have finished bargaining on the majority of their contract and are closer to compromise on the remaining items. Usually a mediator will not be assigned until the parties have only a few open items left to bargain; of course, these are often also the most critical, time-intensive contract sections like pay, benefits and scope.

astrojet

28 million is about a 1% pay raise...all other dL employees just got their usual 4% raise Jan 1 2020

RonRicco

I am not disagreeing with that at all. That is why I mentioned the “zone.”

I am sure we will hear from the company on this and it will be interesting to read their take. I try and look at this stuff in an objective and unemotional manner. This could be about getting us through the summer as you say, or it could be a way in their minds to show the pilot group that our ask is out of whack by the NMB. (Ask the APA how that goes)

Whether it is or isn’t, who knows? Until I have seen our complete table position, it would be hard to judge. Of course what matters most, does the NMB think it is or isn’t out of line?

sailingfun

The company made no offer on pay. I guess the union is correct that pilots will fall for rhetoric rather than facts.

m3113n1a1

Sailing is correct here.

I'm a strong union supporter, but this last year the communications from this MEC have been puzzling. Trying to get us riled up about a non scope violation with regards to Korean, trashing greenslips, weird, targeted polling, releasing the minimum balance plan grenade with no explanation, obsessively fighting skyhub, and now this 28 million number which is obviously BS with no context. Do they think we're dumb?

Even with all that being said, I think we'll get the contract that we deserve it just might take a bit of time. This pilot group is wise and we'll vote accordingly.

block30

First I apologize I have barely been perusing the forums. It seems to me management is waiting for two things.

1. Bad news (in light of the best negotiating environment pilots have had)
and
2. The presidential election to conclude

Ain't nothin' gonna happen 'til then.

I was waiting for this Iran thing to blow up and management come running back to the table.

I was a regional guy and I know how regional pilots express their disgust with management.

Besides voting down a contact, I'm guessing this pilot group is more lean forward in the straps and get the job done no matter what. Is that true? That's not meant to be an insult nor a compliment, just my observation-and I could be wrong. Not my first negotiating round, but first here.

hockeypilot44

I'm sure the NMB is going to love us after our good faith test of the virtual bases or our good faith shutting down of the sils.

We've got them right where we want them according to Jerry.