Delta Mgmt requests mediator.
01-09-2020 | 10:56 AM
#71
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 92
Likes: 7
Why does everyone say our offer is so bad? Because we dont like 1 part of it? We are making Billions, returning billions to the shareholders via buybacks and dividends. Why would we not ask to fix our contract?
I think too many people have forgotten how negotiating a non-concessionary contract goes. Our "give" was we will continue to keep working for the company and not strike.
I think too many people have forgotten how negotiating a non-concessionary contract goes. Our "give" was we will continue to keep working for the company and not strike.
01-09-2020 | 11:05 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,844
Likes: 0
From: 765-A
Denny,
Maybe the company hasn’t. But what if we haven’t either? Maybe mediation is needed.
I have seen up close and personal an MEC that creates a constantly changing target and one that also reneges on previous direction. We saw some of that during TA2 and SWA’s previous negotiations and it did not go well with the NMB.
I don’t know who is negotiating in good faith and who isn’t. We may show up for every meeting, but are we really negotiating?
We will see based in how much time the NMB gives us. Once a month or less and then I will know who is at fault sans any more data being provided.
Maybe the company hasn’t. But what if we haven’t either? Maybe mediation is needed.
I have seen up close and personal an MEC that creates a constantly changing target and one that also reneges on previous direction. We saw some of that during TA2 and SWA’s previous negotiations and it did not go well with the NMB.
I don’t know who is negotiating in good faith and who isn’t. We may show up for every meeting, but are we really negotiating?
We will see based in how much time the NMB gives us. Once a month or less and then I will know who is at fault sans any more data being provided.
Or, how about in C2012 when the company included an offer to buy SWA/AirTrans 717’s, when we knew they wanted them whether we ratified the agreement, or not. Was that really negotiating?
Same thing for the early retirement plan offer and drawdown of the 50 seat RJ’s. Things that they already wanted were included as “improvements” to our contract. Was that really negotiating?
Finally, how about in 2015 when they tried to offer us pay raises that were to be paid with the money we would have given up with the loss of our profit sharing?
So now, in 2020, when the company is making so much money that they can buy ownership of airlines, buy stock back, and give pay raises to other employee groups, while doing nothing to fix the debacle that occurred last summer, (other than to reduce the amount of summer vacation weeks for us), if our union isn’t “really negotiating” when it comes to restoration of our (as in everyone’s) retirements, vacations,
schedule flexibility, and other contract improvements, I’m fine with it.
Taking a hard line like that is long overdue.
01-09-2020 | 11:20 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,971
Likes: 0
From: Kickin’ Back
When the company terminated your pension plan, were they “really negotiating?” Or, did you just wake up one day and find out you had lost $100,000 for every year that you lived past the age of 60?
Or, how about in C2012 when the company included an offer to buy SWA/AirTrans 717’s, when we knew they wanted them whether we ratified the agreement, or not. Was that really negotiating?
Same thing for the early retirement plan offer and drawdown of the 50 seat RJ’s. Things that they already wanted were included as “improvements” to our contract. Was that really negotiating?
Finally, how about in 2015 when they tried to offer us pay raises that were to be paid with the money we would have given up with the loss of our profit sharing?
So now, in 2020, when the company is making so much money that they can buy ownership of airlines, buy stock back, and give pay raises to other employee groups, while doing nothing to fix the debacle that occurred last summer, (other than to reduce the amount of summer vacation weeks for us), if our union isn’t “really negotiating” when it comes to restoration of our (as in everyone’s) retirements, vacations,
schedule flexibility, and other contract improvements, I’m fine with it.
Taking a hard line like that is long overdue.
Or, how about in C2012 when the company included an offer to buy SWA/AirTrans 717’s, when we knew they wanted them whether we ratified the agreement, or not. Was that really negotiating?
Same thing for the early retirement plan offer and drawdown of the 50 seat RJ’s. Things that they already wanted were included as “improvements” to our contract. Was that really negotiating?
Finally, how about in 2015 when they tried to offer us pay raises that were to be paid with the money we would have given up with the loss of our profit sharing?
So now, in 2020, when the company is making so much money that they can buy ownership of airlines, buy stock back, and give pay raises to other employee groups, while doing nothing to fix the debacle that occurred last summer, (other than to reduce the amount of summer vacation weeks for us), if our union isn’t “really negotiating” when it comes to restoration of our (as in everyone’s) retirements, vacations,
schedule flexibility, and other contract improvements, I’m fine with it.
Taking a hard line like that is long overdue.
Denny
01-09-2020 | 11:21 AM
#74
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 62
Preach it my brother!
When the company terminated your pension plan, were they “really negotiating?” Or, did you just wake up one day and find out you had lost $100,000 for every year that you lived past the age of 60?
Or, how about in C2012 when the company included an offer to buy SWA/AirTrans 717’s, when we knew they wanted them whether we ratified the agreement, or not. Was that really negotiating?
Same thing for the early retirement plan offer and drawdown of the 50 seat RJ’s. Things that they already wanted were included as “improvements” to our contract. Was that really negotiating?
Finally, how about in 2015 when they tried to offer us pay raises that were to be paid with the money we would have given up with the loss of our profit sharing?
So now, in 2020, when the company is making so much money that they can buy ownership of airlines, buy stock back, and give pay raises to other employee groups, while doing nothing to fix the debacle that occurred last summer, (other than to reduce the amount of summer vacation weeks for us), if our union isn’t “really negotiating” when it comes to restoration of our (as in everyone’s) retirements, vacations,
schedule flexibility, and other contract improvements, I’m fine with it.
Taking a hard line like that is long overdue.
Or, how about in C2012 when the company included an offer to buy SWA/AirTrans 717’s, when we knew they wanted them whether we ratified the agreement, or not. Was that really negotiating?
Same thing for the early retirement plan offer and drawdown of the 50 seat RJ’s. Things that they already wanted were included as “improvements” to our contract. Was that really negotiating?
Finally, how about in 2015 when they tried to offer us pay raises that were to be paid with the money we would have given up with the loss of our profit sharing?
So now, in 2020, when the company is making so much money that they can buy ownership of airlines, buy stock back, and give pay raises to other employee groups, while doing nothing to fix the debacle that occurred last summer, (other than to reduce the amount of summer vacation weeks for us), if our union isn’t “really negotiating” when it comes to restoration of our (as in everyone’s) retirements, vacations,
schedule flexibility, and other contract improvements, I’m fine with it.
Taking a hard line like that is long overdue.
01-09-2020 | 11:22 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 654
Likes: 0
Maybe that wasn't your intent, but you need to know that that's how it reads, particularly when placed in context of many of your other posts on a variety of topics.
These things you mentioned represent a tiny fraction of the PWA, and would be considered a cherry on top of an improved Section 23.
01-09-2020 | 11:22 AM
#76
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 833
Likes: 5
From: Captain
When the company terminated your pension plan, were they “really negotiating?” Or, did you just wake up one day and find out you had lost $100,000 for every year that you lived past the age of 60?
Or, how about in C2012 when the company included an offer to buy SWA/AirTrans 717’s, when we knew they wanted them whether we ratified the agreement, or not. Was that really negotiating?
Same thing for the early retirement plan offer and drawdown of the 50 seat RJ’s. Things that they already wanted were included as “improvements” to our contract. Was that really negotiating?
Finally, how about in 2015 when they tried to offer us pay raises that were to be paid with the money we would have given up with the loss of our profit sharing?
So now, in 2020, when the company is making so much money that they can buy ownership of airlines, buy stock back, and give pay raises to other employee groups, while doing nothing to fix the debacle that occurred last summer, (other than to reduce the amount of summer vacation weeks for us), if our union isn’t “really negotiating” when it comes to restoration of our (as in everyone’s) retirements, vacations,
schedule flexibility, and other contract improvements, I’m fine with it.
Taking a hard line like that is long overdue.
Or, how about in C2012 when the company included an offer to buy SWA/AirTrans 717’s, when we knew they wanted them whether we ratified the agreement, or not. Was that really negotiating?
Same thing for the early retirement plan offer and drawdown of the 50 seat RJ’s. Things that they already wanted were included as “improvements” to our contract. Was that really negotiating?
Finally, how about in 2015 when they tried to offer us pay raises that were to be paid with the money we would have given up with the loss of our profit sharing?
So now, in 2020, when the company is making so much money that they can buy ownership of airlines, buy stock back, and give pay raises to other employee groups, while doing nothing to fix the debacle that occurred last summer, (other than to reduce the amount of summer vacation weeks for us), if our union isn’t “really negotiating” when it comes to restoration of our (as in everyone’s) retirements, vacations,
schedule flexibility, and other contract improvements, I’m fine with it.
Taking a hard line like that is long overdue.
Obviously you didn’t get the point if the post. Either way, it isn’t me you have to try and convince.
01-09-2020 | 11:53 AM
#77
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 20
From: NYC 330
01-09-2020 | 12:04 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 0
From: A330 First Officer
So JM just put out a memo countering what the union memo's said. So did they or did they not cancel future meetings? That should be an easy one to prove. How about this, how about both sides put out their opening positions in general terms (kinda like the union actually did) and see who is talking with forked tongue.
01-09-2020 | 12:06 PM
#80
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 332
Likes: 17
Speaking of the "word on the street". Word is... ever since the company announced their three negotiators it was obvious that they had NO INTENTION of quickly coming to an agreement with the pilot group. The word on the street is that the three company negotiators HAVE ZERO experience negotiating. Therefore, they have to run everything by others to get analysis and approval (time consuming). Just what I've heard on the street.
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