Trying to find somebody who has done an RLL. I understand that you have to be senior enough according to the premonth tables to get one. I also understand that you'd make more just taking the Reserve guarantee. However, as a commuter in a category where everyone will be on Reserve, I'm somewhat interested in the fact that any recovery days on an RLL come with a 24 hour callout window. My question is how do you negotiate with skeds about where your recovery days are placed and if there are any other Gotchas involved (again, I'd be OK with the bottom LCW guarantee)

 

I’ve tried to get one several times and never been awarded one. The scary thing as a commuter is that, according to what I can glean about RLLs from the SRH, is that the request for one must be placed below a bid group that is unrestricted, ie below an ‘award pairings’ line. This allows PBS to use all ability to build you a regular line first with no limitations - in other words, uncommutable. Maybe I’m reading it wrong but that’s too big a risk to take as a commuter.

If anyone is able to explain it otherwise, I’m interested.

 

So basically it's only useful if you're going to be unblockable and you don't want a blank regular line or a reserve line.

 

This is a correct assessment. An RLL bid group can only be submitted below a Start Pairings group that ends with Award Pairings.

 

Understand the concern, just spitballin' here but does the commutability matter? In the few categories I've taken a gander at, the reserves required numbers are tiny compared to availability.

Couldn't you just PD anything you can't make work? In essence create your own RLL regardless of what the PBS God's kick out?

I'm mostly asking for my own bidding strategy, please tell me what I'm missing.

Edit, reread original post and now understand why he wants RLL. In my case though, I should be able to drop everything right?

 

Well, in my case there are currently no trips in the bid package so I'm not worried about PBS giving me a whacky partial line. I'd literally get no line and just owe a bunch of recovery days on a 24 hour leash. If I could be assured that there would be basically no open time in June I'd just go reserve and take the higher pay, but I have a feeling that we'll be adding open trips as June goes along....if we don't and we're still running just 10% of the schedule heading into July, we're all in trouble

 

Sooo RLL lesson. RLLs go back to line of time bidding at Delta. At that time they published a certain number of regular lines, and a certain number of reserve lines. As an example, say a hypothetical category of 100 pilots had 80 regular lines and 20 reserve lines. #80 knew he could get a line. So did 79, 78, etc. #81, not so much. If one of the top 80 guys picked a reserve line, then yes, 81 could get a line. But it wasn't guaranteed. The RLL concept was adopted when we went to PBS. PBS is more efficient, and sometimes trips in bid packages aren't evenly spread throughout the month. So the company published an RLL limit number in the bid package, which is the number of pilots who are calculated to get a line. If you are at that number or senior, you are guaranteed to get a line. If you meet the RLL limit and PBS can't mathematically get you a line and you have a bid in for an RLL, it will award you whatever it can below the bottom of the line construction window, whether it be one minute below or wherever. You got a line and can add to it via swap, white slip, etc. If you don't have a bid in for an RLL and get forced to reserve, you have the option of electing a blank regular line to which you can add using swap, white slip, etc. An RLL is not a bidding option, it's a contingency, open to pilots above the RLL cutoff in seniority.
And ... not a new hire...

 

I would say the RLL is both a bidding option and a contingency solely because you must select that condition in PBS in order for that contingency to be executed should the circumstances warrant.

For those who have stated they have tried for an RLL and not been awarded one, that isn't surprising. You would only be awarded one if:
1) You were above the published RLL number; and
2) You opted for the RLL condition in your PBS bid; and
3) Your last bid grouping had no restrictions (avoid, prefer off, etc); and
4) There were not enough trips remaining in the PBS pot to build you a line within the LCW.

It is number 4 that makes the RLL so elusive. If you have any seniority above the published RLL, there are likely enough trips in the pot to build you a line within the LCW if all of your negative preferences are removed. And yes, I suspect the remaining trips in the pot at that time are less than desirable and likely non-commutable on one or both ends.

 

I don't think your #3 is correct. The PBS Reference Handbook only mentions three restrictions:
1) The Set Condition bid preferences Maximum Credit or Minimum Credit may not be used in an RLL Bid Group
2) An RLL Bid Group must always be placed somewhere below an Unconditional Pairings Bid Group (one without ESN or CSSN)
3) An RLL Bid Group may be placed above or below a Reserve Bid Group

I believe the plain-jane "prefer off Saturdays" and "avoid landings in ATL" are allowed in the RLL bid group.

 

Actually spoke to the union/PBS guys yesterday and got some good gouge. He said they were getting lots of calls about RLLs because of categories with no trips in them. If you have no trips and are above the RLL seniority limit, you will basically get a line with zero hour projection. If you do nothing, Schedules assumes you will try to white slip to increase your projection so the key is that you MUST call skeds after lines are published in Icrew but before the 24th and tell them you want the lower guarantee of the window (LCW). You will then get assigned recovery days that are determined by a formula (approx 14-15) These have a 24 hr callout window and no short calls. You can remove some of the recovery days by white slipping