I’m thankful the SEC doesn’t determine our nonrev priority. Otherwise it would be DOH for everyone: Delta, DGS, Endeavor, Monroe Energy, Delta Private Jets ...

This has nothing to do with pilots, it has everything to do with who you work for. And by work for I mean what your W2 says. But hey, if somebody who works for DPJ wants to tell their friends that they work for Delta, there’s nothing we can do to stop them.

So you are justifying changing a long standing Nonrev priority policy disadvantaging tens of thousands of DELTA EMPLOYEES just to save some $$$ and help Endeavor pilots get to work??? You need to rethink your position here. That is a terrible argument with little justification, especially if you're a Delta pilot!!!

Ahhh, go a day early, drive or .....MOVE Your argument just doesn't make sense here.

I can see 9E S3a's to work and back, the problem is that they are young and prolific which knocks out 3 to 5 seats per employee. And that's all I have to say about that.

New telescope for your birthday?

Did you really just ask how seniority is fair?

Deleted.....

The Endeavor commuter clause is a “me too” off the DAL PWA, it’s identical. Again, this means when 9E misses the 6a out FLL because 9 retirees got on, DAL is purchasing the $3,000+ tickets to remove revenue customers on the 8am.

If this fact offends your sensibilities so much, maybe your airline shouldn’t have sold scope. Again, if you want it fixed. See section 1 of the PWA and fix it.

We use different software vendors, Delta has to dump iCrew for it to work, otherwise it has to entered manually like it's done for working flights.

Exactly, I don’t get why this is so difficult. Only the employee going TO work.

You really think that’s the primary organizational identifier? I’d have to say if I saw a resume where someone said they worked for Delta Air Lines Inc and found out they actually worked for Endeavor I’d feel they were being disingenuous to say the least.

I don’t feel that this should be that hard. Give them priority on their own metal fine, but being a Delta retiree is the endgame for all of us. Let’s make it as good a retirement as possible.

Frustration at EDV pilots is misdirected. They didn’t ask for the change and try to stir up trouble, and 99% of them would rather send the jets over to Delta and fly them at mainline. Bring DCI planes home and this isn’t an issue, I’ll bang that drum every day of the week.

To your first. So what? You commute in to make your trip. Period.

I commute to a NE base. It's a pain, especially after we throttled the flights as result of C-19 and most of our rotations there on my equipment are uncommutable on the front and back end. Sometimes I leave a day or 2 early to insure I am in position for the start of the trip. That is my responsibility to my employer. I do have a commuter clause to avail myself to should SHTF, but rarely do I require that option (think I have used it once in 4 years).

If you can't be responsible to be in place for the start of your trip, maybe time to go do something else. Kicking our retirees in the back is not how this is solved. You being disciplined and professional is. If its on DAL metal, they should have S3A. Nothing less.

To your second statement. It has nothing to do with pass priority. A vindictive comment on your part.

You misunderstand how commuting works, you cant predict what the flight loads will be the next morning. If you wanna come in two days early thats on you, but no one except you does that.

Second, there's no one in nyc to cover said pilot who at 8am (his second shot to work) the 12pm or 1pm start. That flight is cancelled, as are his next 2-4. 30 - 50 times every morning delta was going to have to cancel 1-4 flights per pilot.

I dont know why you keep reducing this down to incorrect simplicity. If the EDV pilot doesn't get to NYC at the time this change was made, you'd cancel 3, flights at a minimum. Delta, at the time, had already tried pushing the flight onto other contract carriers. Air wisconsin refused and cancelled their delta contract under Delta pressure as a FOAD move. No other contract carrier would touch the flying without an exorbitant fee.

Delta made a business decision. EDV pilots didnt even ask for it. The only way you can blame them is if you go back in time years to when edv was placed as S3b (Pinnacle days? Pre edv). Edv alpa union was trying to leverage delta to pay edv more so guys could afford to live in nyc, they weren't begging for s3a.

EDV guy here. My sentiments exactly. For context our pilot group never asked for or advocated for any increase in priority. This was purely a decision our management and Delta management came to on their own when they were sick of paying for positive space. Please direct your anger accordingly. Many of us break our backs to serve Delta and hope to earn a spot at mainline someday. There’s certainly an opportunity here for a “win win” scenario where we can all be untied in a fight to be on the same seniority list as opposed to an “us vs them” mentality.

Bingo. You guys are ALPA pilots flying delta pax, I hope one day it’s on our DAL list and contract feed is a thing of the past.

Ha, you really said that. I've been commuter my life in the regionals (to NYC) and as a Delta Pilot (ATL, LAX and NYC). I pretty well understand how commuting works. Further, desptie what you said, it is your responsibility to be in position for the start of your trip. Its in the FOM. Your CP will tell you that a thousand times during your probationary meetings. That never goes away. They don't care where you live. All they care about is that you be there for the start of your trip. Simple. Up to you to figure that out. You can be a responsible adult, or play a childs game.

This sounds like a manning problem to me. Why doesn't/didn't EDV staff reserves properly? Trying to get by on a razors margin perhaps to save a few cost bleems? Who was running EDV at the time this went down?

Yes I distill this down to simple fact. EDV pilots don't work for DAL. Our retirees should ALWAYS enjoy a higher priority for non-rev over non-Delta employees when traveling on our aircraft. I think we can get it.

I don’t see frustration at EDV pilots or even at them getting higher priority to get to and from work. I understand the frustration with them and their families getting higher priority to nonrev on Delta while NOT going to and from work.

Denny

So what's the solution? The EDV employee gets S3A, their spouse and dependents get S3B unless traveling with the employee in which case they get bumped up to S3A? That would make the most sense and be the easiest to implement. It's already how we are with parent travel at mainline where the parent with the employee gets bumped up to S3. Most employees traveling by themselves would be going to/from work so there wouldn't really be a need for actual verification each and every time they traveled.

I think most of us agree S3A to work only for the EDV employee.

Otherwise its S3B for them and their sig others and dependents. Sig others and dependents never get more than S3B on Delta metal, period.

I think that would work since the issue it seems from the EDV stand point is commuting in to work and cancelling flights. Although I think that is solved by proper staffing and people being responsible commuters.

The issue comes from buying out revenue passengers, as Delta has a "never involuntary bump" policy.

I've been commuting the whole time, to nyc, except for about ~4 years when I lived in a base. Our job is not to be there for the trip, our job is to show up for the commute, give ourselves two chances, it says so right in the FOM. If we don't make it, the NON DISIPLINARY effect is to start removing legs from our pattern (at EDV). It is not the pilots job to solve the staffing problem of the company, which was run by Delta at the time.

If the CP, in a meeting with me and my rep, ever said it was my job to predict the future loads and seamlessly weave my way to work, he would have been wrong. I show up to the airport, I gives it my shots, if the company chooses to pos space me afterwards and displace a couple revenue pax that's on the company. At the time it was 1000 bucks a pop and higher.

Delta, the company that ran EDV and Delta, decided to step on your contract and increase their margins. That wasn't something the union asked for, there was nothing signed. Delta did the data crunch like they always did, and figured out the cost to screw mainline's retirement privilege's were less than the cost to keep buying passenger tickets to NYC or cancelling flights where needed. This happened, they are the facts, and they are not in dispute.

You are trying to point to a want you have in the contract, something that used to be there, and that's good. What's bad is blaming any of this on EDV pilots who didn't ask for it. We wanted more money to either buy our tickets if we wanted (we wouldn't), make the missing legs not hurt so much because the rest of the legs were paid so much, make the legs worth more than the hotel room stay the night before, or SO much money people at said regional could live in NYC sans food stamps. That was our ask. We got shortcircuited by Delta. I don't blame delta pilots for that, I came to work for them. I blamed management. You have no issue with EDV pilots. You have an issue with a couple ex and current EDV pilots calling you out on factual mistakes that you made. Own it, like an adult, and stop being a child.

I live in MSP and drive to work, I could care less about the commuter clause. But I’m telling you, the clause in the contract is the same Cadillac plan at 9E and just because you are St. Commuter and used it once in 4 years doesn’t mean the rest of the world is like you.

Again - DAL (your company and my parent company) got tired of paying for $3,000 tickets several times a day because the retirees (who no longer contribute to the bottom line) got on the 6am and DAL purchased tickets on the 8am.

You can call my comment vindictive if you want. If does not change the fact - this wouldn’t be an issue is the pilots hadn’t given up scope in the first place. You have two remedies. Waste capital on higher pass travel benefits to beat out S3A for retirees or fix section 1 of your PWA. I think section 1 solves more problems (how many hostages does DAL have?), but that’s your PWA, not mine.

EDV has, what, 2k pilots on their list? If you have a gripe about edv companions, management, and beneficiaries of edv PILOTS getting S3A, then okay, I can understand the gripe. But ****ing off an entire pilot group who is by all accounts, improving your bottom line and working their butts off to maintain mainline metrics just trying to get to and from work, doesn't seem worth it imo. No, they aren't mainline, but they are absolutely an important piece to the puzzle with their performance. I know how strong the god complex is down in dixieland but they(edv) do a pretty significant amount of lift for you guys and from my time there, seemed by all intents and purposes to be an extremely professional work group. Not sure how that small of a pilot group in the grand scheme of things can ruffle so many feathers, especially those who are no longer active or contributing to Delta.

Maybe we should just sell EDV to SW like they did ASA.

Problem solved.

As a pilot, you don’t own anything. You’re just an employee, working for the shareholders. No different than a gate agent or flight attendant.

Endeavor pilots work for DAL shareholders.

Retirees don’t work for DAL shareholders.

Cogf16 was hired at DAL with 700 hours, wouldn’t even meet the bare minimum requirements at endeavor today.

Perhaps you guys could practice some humility. You make the entire pilot group look like spoiled brats. If you didn’t want this you should have went to SWA or JetBlue.

Maybe we should just sell EDV to SW. Problem solved.

Heck we sold ASA to SW. ASA used to be wholly owned too.

The fact remains. Our retirees worked for Delta Air Lines. You do not.

This may not go anywhere. All Cog was asking was for us to take a look at it. I called my reps and asked them to see what they can do. Nothing may come of it, or it might get traction. We'll see.

You work here?

Hey while you're talking to Bastion see if he can get insurance to cover your anal twigectomy, it's way past time you got that removed.

I can guarantee you, at Delta Air Lines, not EDV, if you avail yourself to commuting clause all the time, and get pos space more often than others, you are going to hear about it. The union will not help you, rightfully so. I can't speak for EDV as I don't work there. Never have. Do you work at Delta, or are you EDV pilot? Maybe prior EDV now at DAL? It will help with my context. To help you with mine: I was former mil pilot, former ASA/Express jet pilot, and now a Delta pilot.

No one is blaming EDV pilots, where did we ever say that? What we did say was that them getting S3A for non-rev - to include sig others and dependents - over our retirees is wrong. Them getting S3A to get too work is fine. IMHO we should look at seeing what we can do as a union to rectify that. Maybe something comes of it, maybe not. All Cog is asking is we try. That is a fair request.

I do.

I don’t usually engage, but its beyond embarrassing to see fellow, highly paid professionals fight over retiree standby tickets with kids just starting their career.

I’ve been here less than a decade and buy positive space tickets. If you don’t have seven figures in the bank at retirement, you have much bigger problems to worry about.

It's a real shame your union sold scope down the river. Who's PWA is allowing contractors to come in and fly your metal with your pax for cheaper wages? Maybe that would be a good starting point with your union. Maybe while you're at it, ask them how the JVs are working out. Must be great buying ZEDs on AF, Aeromexico, KLM, Italia, on and on and on instead of sitting in D1. Serious quesiton, who does more Delta branded flying, DCI + JVs or mainline? Sure, kick the little guy if it makes you feel big. But its ironically the retirees who caved on scope that paved the way for this charade. Active edv pilots are contributing to your profit check, and you want to **** them off to keep Frank happy trying to get out of Del Boca Vista? Okay, dude.

First off, no one reading your posts here needs your background. Of course youre a mil pilot. Whatever time you spent at ASA actually flying or commuting clearly wasn't much. Either you pushed papers full time at your reserve mil job waiting for mainline to call or you were called so quickly to mainline you can't even tell me which lever on the RJ seats stops the belts.

There's so much wrong with the rest of this I'm not gonna try. Why? Because you ignore what people do to inform you and then pretend another conversation is going on. There's nothing humble or informed about any of your opinions and that's the pushback you're getting here. The reader may decide which of us is right. Exactly no one is fooled. You're wrong because you're misinformed. Your continued crap posting on here confirms what everyone thought about you BEFORE they politely responded the first time.

I got positive space continuously for months on the old benefits before Delta changed them, as did many others when I was at EDV. When at Delta, I don't have trouble getting on, I still haven't had to use positive space at Delta while commuting to the SAME airport. I can't help how far behind you are in understanding. I can't help your tone. I can't pretend I'm the only guy on this thread, telling you to stop your pilot bashing, but maybe you can tell them to act professional for the 8th or 10th time. Unscrew your head out of your posterior and move onto another thread.

Don't give regional guys a lecture on professionalism or work ethic. These guys outwork you every time they step in an airplane and most of them get similar letters of thanks from passengers and NPS scores. I still have some of mine. They have no support, little technology, and until somewhat recently they couldn't even trust the paperwork could be printed out by the gate or Ops because of a Delta system problem with our NOTAMs. No one even addressed it for a couple days because we just handled it. They should have medals for how hard they work to get passengers and/or jumpseaters on last minute in the -200. I love my mainline job, I do, but we don't do anything at Delta. Even when I think about helping some captain will tell me, "No man, XXXXX does that. Just wait to be told what to do". No one from any regional, never mind guys at EDV, need a work ethic/professional talk from you.

you never will. Its pathetic they have such a priority over mainline active. Retiree is different

what priority does EDV have over active mainline employees?

They have priority over active mainline on the aircraft in their fleet.

I thought they had the same priority as us with DOH being the tiebreaker

Holy crap you nailed this one down. These are the exact sentiments of many former regional pilots here at Delta. We work with a bunch of crybabies who are so used to getting their ass kissed they freak out when others who work hard actually get something.

DAL Pilots and EDV Pilots both are contractual workers for Delta Air Lines Inc. How hard is that to understand?????

they’re not delta air lines planes, though.

Wrong that’s on Skywest. On 9E Planes we are equal to them and go by DOH.