Prepare Yourselves... 2021 AEs
02-02-2021, 03:46 AM
#392
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 896
there’s been some discussion within our UNA group and amongst some ALPA personnel that junior pilots awarded on this AE who will have not gone to training towards the tail end of the conversion, will still be considered “affected pilots” per LOA 20-04. This would mean that if another AE was published and subsequently awarded before those affected junior pilots (awarded on this Jan AE) started training, other affected pilots who were not awarded on this AE would still be able to be awarded a category of their choosing before those “affected pilots”. Again, there’s no clarity on this but LOA 20-04 specifies you’re an affected pilot until you start day 1 of training or a junior pilot starts training before you. PWA Section 22.E
example:
Plug on Jan AE gets training assigned July 1, 2021. AE comes out April 1 with 400 more positions. AE award comes out April 30 with pilots senior to plug being awarded a position before plug gets it due to both pilots still being “affected status” per LOA 20-04.
example:
Plug on Jan AE gets training assigned July 1, 2021. AE comes out April 1 with 400 more positions. AE award comes out April 30 with pilots senior to plug being awarded a position before plug gets it due to both pilots still being “affected status” per LOA 20-04.
Every time there is a bid, you are considered to be in your most future category. So every affected pilot who is awarded a position on this bid will be bidding “from” that category, regardless of whether or not they have started training.
02-02-2021, 04:06 AM
#393
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 377
Get what your saying but ALPA says per 20-04 you must be active in that category, active is defined as either commencing training or someone junior to you commencing training...clear as mud to me
02-02-2021, 05:42 AM
#394
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,100
there’s been some discussion within our UNA group and amongst some ALPA personnel that junior pilots awarded on this AE who will have not gone to training towards the tail end of the conversion, will still be considered “affected pilots” per LOA 20-04. This would mean that if another AE was published and subsequently awarded before those affected junior pilots (awarded on this Jan AE) started training, other affected pilots who were not awarded on this AE would still be able to be awarded a category of their choosing before those “affected pilots”. Again, there’s no clarity on this but LOA 20-04 specifies you’re an affected pilot until you start day 1 of training or a junior pilot starts training before you. PWA Section 22.E
example:
Plug on Jan AE gets training assigned July 1, 2021. AE comes out April 1 with 400 more positions. AE award comes out April 30 with pilots senior to plug being awarded a position before plug gets it due to both pilots still being “affected status” per LOA 20-04.
example:
Plug on Jan AE gets training assigned July 1, 2021. AE comes out April 1 with 400 more positions. AE award comes out April 30 with pilots senior to plug being awarded a position before plug gets it due to both pilots still being “affected status” per LOA 20-04.
Do we compete with new hires for what equipment is available that particular week? I assume we'd get first choice (of whatever is available) since we have the seniority. Since we're no longer 'Affected Pilots', does that mean we incur a 2 year seat lock?
I'd love to stay away from the 737 and NY, but if I bypass and then take a leave of absence, I may be consigning myself to one or both of those things...
02-02-2021, 05:46 AM
#395
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 896
I see that language, but I highly doubt the intent of it was to make affected pilots continue to bid. It's more likely that is just clarifying the process to return happens under 1.D. FWIW, it's not clearly specified in the PWA that you bid in you most future category either, thats just how it is done. I could be wrong though... who amongst ALPA has said they think unconverted affected pilots will bid again?
02-02-2021, 05:49 AM
#396
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,240
As someone who will be bypassing for as long as possible, my question revolves around what happens once there are no more 'Affected Pilots'. Once everyone has either gone back to the line or gone on an unpaid leave of absence, what happens in terms of BES selection when ending that unpaid leave?
Do we compete with new hires for what equipment is available that particular week? I assume we'd get first choice (of whatever is available) since we have the seniority. Since we're no longer 'Affected Pilots', does that mean we incur a 2 year seat lock?
I'd love to stay away from the 737 and NY, but if I bypass and then take a leave of absence, I may be consigning myself to one or both of those things...
Do we compete with new hires for what equipment is available that particular week? I assume we'd get first choice (of whatever is available) since we have the seniority. Since we're no longer 'Affected Pilots', does that mean we incur a 2 year seat lock?
I'd love to stay away from the 737 and NY, but if I bypass and then take a leave of absence, I may be consigning myself to one or both of those things...
You will get something assigned in inverse seniority order. Then...whatever is left it will be used for NH.
Now if you’re on a LOA, the. When you come back, you can get whatever you seniority is available to hold, regardless of NHs.
02-02-2021, 05:53 AM
#397
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 2,582
As someone who will be bypassing for as long as possible, my question revolves around what happens once there are no more 'Affected Pilots'. Once everyone has either gone back to the line or gone on an unpaid leave of absence, what happens in terms of BES selection when ending that unpaid leave?
Do we compete with new hires for what equipment is available that particular week? I assume we'd get first choice (of whatever is available) since we have the seniority. Since we're no longer 'Affected Pilots', does that mean we incur a 2 year seat lock?
I'd love to stay away from the 737 and NY, but if I bypass and then take a leave of absence, I may be consigning myself to one or both of those things...
Do we compete with new hires for what equipment is available that particular week? I assume we'd get first choice (of whatever is available) since we have the seniority. Since we're no longer 'Affected Pilots', does that mean we incur a 2 year seat lock?
I'd love to stay away from the 737 and NY, but if I bypass and then take a leave of absence, I may be consigning myself to one or both of those things...
It would be nice if Delta and ALPA could come up with a plan to offer bids to everyone, based on available seats, and if you don’t get your choice(s) you remain in affected status, until you get a seat you want. Some guys/girls have found other work and aren’t in a hurry to return if QOL is going to suck, which it sounds like your situation. Others just want to or need to come back yesterday, and will take any seat. Let those guys come back at first available, and guys that aren’t in a hurry, to wait for what they want, within reason of course. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.
02-02-2021, 06:17 AM
#398
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 896
As someone who will be bypassing for as long as possible, my question revolves around what happens once there are no more 'Affected Pilots'. Once everyone has either gone back to the line or gone on an unpaid leave of absence, what happens in terms of BES selection when ending that unpaid leave?
Do we compete with new hires for what equipment is available that particular week? I assume we'd get first choice (of whatever is available) since we have the seniority. Since we're no longer 'Affected Pilots', does that mean we incur a 2 year seat lock?
I'd love to stay away from the 737 and NY, but if I bypass and then take a leave of absence, I may be consigning myself to one or both of those things...
Do we compete with new hires for what equipment is available that particular week? I assume we'd get first choice (of whatever is available) since we have the seniority. Since we're no longer 'Affected Pilots', does that mean we incur a 2 year seat lock?
I'd love to stay away from the 737 and NY, but if I bypass and then take a leave of absence, I may be consigning myself to one or both of those things...
If you elect to take the unpaid leave, when you return your category is determined by 13.C.1. or 2. Essentially you can pick any category held by a pilot junior to you at the time of your return.
02-02-2021, 06:19 AM
#399
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,466
It would be nice if Delta and ALPA could come up with a plan to offer bids to everyone, based on available seats, and if you don’t get your choice(s) you remain in affected status, until you get a seat you want. Some guys/girls have found other work and aren’t in a hurry to return if QOL is going to suck, which it sounds like your situation. Others just want to or need to come back yesterday, and will take any seat. Let those guys come back at first available, and guys that aren’t in a hurry, to wait for what they want, within reason of course. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.
to add, it would seem its in both groups best interest to do it this way, Delta because it will lower training churn (people won’t cycle through whatever plane brings them back quickest) and ALPA because it better honors seniority
02-02-2021, 06:21 AM
#400
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,100
Im not certain, so don’t take this as gospel, but at some point you will go from “affected status” to LOA status (I think) if you’re talking about staying out longer than it takes to recall everyone. If that is the case, when you come back from LOA status, you get your choice of BES based on what your seniority can hold.
It would be nice if Delta and ALPA could come up with a plan to offer bids to everyone, based on available seats, and if you don’t get your choice(s) you remain in affected status, until you get a seat you want. Some guys/girls have found other work and aren’t in a hurry to return if QOL is going to suck, which it sounds like your situation. Others just want to or need to come back yesterday, and will take any seat. Let those guys come back at first available, and guys that aren’t in a hurry, to wait for what they want, within reason of course. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.
It would be nice if Delta and ALPA could come up with a plan to offer bids to everyone, based on available seats, and if you don’t get your choice(s) you remain in affected status, until you get a seat you want. Some guys/girls have found other work and aren’t in a hurry to return if QOL is going to suck, which it sounds like your situation. Others just want to or need to come back yesterday, and will take any seat. Let those guys come back at first available, and guys that aren’t in a hurry, to wait for what they want, within reason of course. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.
I was fortunate enough to have found a job that pays the bills, and am using this (un-looked for/unwanted) opportunity to sleep in my own bed for as many nights in a row as possible, because silver linings and all.
Was just curious how it would work when I return to the real world and if I were boning myself in the long run. Sounds like I won't be forced to commute for 2 years to NY again when I come back, which is nice.
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