LOA to change TOE’s
02-26-2021, 04:37 AM
#121
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by Trip7
I've haven't flown international yet but the disparity in opinions is quite intriguing. Some think it like a space shuttle mission that requires hands on teaching from a LCP and some think it's a snooze fest especially while being lectured all the way across the Ocean
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It’s more the nuances with each center. They all have their own quirks that are different from the others. Once you do it a few times it’s like riding a bike. I don’t know why they have always made the Atlantic so much more complicated than anywhere else but they have. The pacific is just like flying domestic just with quiet radios.
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02-26-2021, 06:52 AM
#122
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
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Posts: 10,041
Originally Posted by tunes
It’s more the nuances with each center. They all have their own quirks that are different from the others. Once you do it a few times it’s like riding a bike. I don’t know why they have always made the Atlantic so much more complicated than anywhere else but they have. The pacific is just like flying domestic just with quiet radios.
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02-26-2021, 07:47 AM
#123
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Slingin' Gear and Drinkin' Beer
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by notEnuf
The NATs work fine until they don’t. If the plan stays valid for the 6ish hours you’re out there, no problem. As soon as you have to change that plan you are on your own under penalty of gross navigational error. Turn your lights on and weave between the lines is not a solution. It will get better but I hope we get closer to real time control before we get any closer physically by adding traffic or shrinking the lanes again.
I have been told the NATs were about to go VHF control all the way across, then the Rona hit. Apparently they’re just waiting to flip the switch on the new system. Anyone have more in-depth info?
02-26-2021, 07:58 AM
#124
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,818
No TOE/TQ on the WATRS routes. A freshly minted CA and a freshly minted FO might fly a WATRS trip right out of OE (low-time pairing limitations notwithstanding.) -- with no LCP or LVP.
And oddly enough no rash of GNE's.
The only difference between the two is ETOPS. The QRC makes things simple.
I've down both NATS and WATRS for many years.
And oddly enough no rash of GNE's.
The only difference between the two is ETOPS. The QRC makes things simple.
I've down both NATS and WATRS for many years.
02-26-2021, 09:12 AM
#125
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
No TOE/TQ on the WATRS routes. A freshly minted CA and a freshly minted FO might fly a WATRS trip right out of OE (low-time pairing limitations notwithstanding.) -- with no LCP or LVP.
And oddly enough no rash of GNE's.
The only difference between the two is ETOPS. The QRC makes things simple.
I've down both NATS and WATRS for many years.
And oddly enough no rash of GNE's.
The only difference between the two is ETOPS. The QRC makes things simple.
I've down both NATS and WATRS for many years.
Being done for "many years" isn't an excuse to not improve the airspace as we grow the traffic. Big sky theory works too, until it doesn't.
02-26-2021, 09:34 AM
#126
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Just called sched's and dropped my international trip for tomorrow. Now that you all have enlightened me as to how dangerous it is , I don't feel comfortable. Sched's asked me the general nature of the trip drop and I told them, " It's not safe with so many variables to manage, I am not a professional pilot, and I can't do what my 24 yo aircraft commander kid does in the AF" Sched's told me to call in well when I grew a hair.
Do I have a case against sched's for a hostile work place environment?
Do I have a case against sched's for a hostile work place environment?
02-26-2021, 09:59 AM
#127
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Just called sched's and dropped my international trip for tomorrow. Now that you all have enlightened me as to how dangerous it is , I don't feel comfortable. Sched's asked me the general nature of the trip drop and I told them, " It's not safe with so many variables to manage, I am not a professional pilot, and I can't do what my 24 yo aircraft commander kid does in the AF" Sched's told me to call in well when I grew a hair.
Do I have a case against sched's for a hostile work place environment?
Do I have a case against sched's for a hostile work place environment?
02-26-2021, 10:03 AM
#128
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Fetal
Posts: 1,148
LOA to change TOE’s
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Just called sched's and dropped my international trip for tomorrow. Now that you all have enlightened me as to how dangerous it is , I don't feel comfortable. Sched's asked me the general nature of the trip drop and I told them, " It's not safe with so many variables to manage, I am not a professional pilot, and I can't do what my 24 yo aircraft commander kid does in the AF" Sched's told me to call in well when I grew a hair.
Do I have a case against sched's for a hostile work place environment?
Do I have a case against sched's for a hostile work place environment?
I think you don’t know how old your kid is. He would’ve had to have graduate college at an old 20 or young 21, then go to UPT about a week after graduation, then somehow complete a copilot course, get mission-ready, and get 1000ish hours, complete AC upgrade and get MR again in 3 years.
Also, the Air Force is not the best yardstick by which to measure skill when crossing the NATs.
Edit to add: if your son is a pointy-nose type, then he knows about as much about the NATs as my dog.
02-26-2021, 10:12 AM
#129
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by GucciBoy
I think you don’t know how old your kid is. He would’ve had to have graduate college at an old 20 or young 21, then go to UPT about a week after graduation, then somehow complete a copilot course, get mission-ready, and get 1000ish hours, complete AC upgrade and get MR again in 3 years.
Also, the Air Force is not the best yardstick by which to measure skill when crossing the NATs.
Edit to add: if your son is a pointy-nose type, then he knows about as much about the NATs as my dog.
Also, the Air Force is not the best yardstick by which to measure skill when crossing the NATs.
Edit to add: if your son is a pointy-nose type, then he knows about as much about the NATs as my dog.
Son, you are a professional pilot...act like one
02-26-2021, 10:29 AM
#130
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
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Posts: 10,041
Charley Lindbergh got nuttin' on me. 
I just prefer to sleep when I'm supposed to be resting instead of bouncing out of my lie flat seat. The most courageous thing we are ever asked to do is call scheduling and tell them we are fatigued. The airspace limitations are real. Nobody said it wasn't safe, just that it can and will be improved and that the timeline is in question.
BTW, I wish I could "grow a hair." Male pattern baldness is the bane of my of my self esteem.
I just prefer to sleep when I'm supposed to be resting instead of bouncing out of my lie flat seat. The most courageous thing we are ever asked to do is call scheduling and tell them we are fatigued. The airspace limitations are real. Nobody said it wasn't safe, just that it can and will be improved and that the timeline is in question.BTW, I wish I could "grow a hair." Male pattern baldness is the bane of my of my self esteem.
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