Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major > Delta
35 Large RJs coming back? >

35 Large RJs coming back?

Search

Notices

35 Large RJs coming back?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-26-2021 | 10:24 AM
  #741  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by SparkySmith
“RJs over 188”. The network has 188ish operating right now. If I understand it correctly, the 35 we are talking about is above 188. So in DALPA’s email “RJs over 188” refers to these 35 only.

Nobody was talking about parking Endeavor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I misread the memo. Thanks.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 10:26 AM
  #742  
:-)
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by notEnuf
I'd fight an ambiguity argument all day when the language is specific and the control over flying is entirely Delta's. Compass went away because Delta chose that action.
My educated opinion on that, would be Delta mgt claiming force majeure on the ability to implement flow down at another carrier during the pandemic, and CARES act. The arbitrator will likely grant some relief on that, the extent of which, is unknown.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 10:26 AM
  #743  
Trimming my beard
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: 7ERB
Default

Originally Posted by JacksonThunder
I misread the memo. Thanks.

Sorry to pile on. Seems six of us wrote similar things simultaneously.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 10:33 AM
  #744  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by notEnuf
I'd fight an ambiguity argument all day when the language is specific and the control over flying is entirely Delta's. Compass went away because Delta chose that action.
Well then nothing to worry about...Delta will lose those 35 planes in arbitration, it's clear as day, no reason to even talk about it, right?

You must have glossed over the meaning of latent ambiguity...it can be clear, specific, non-ambigious, straight-forward, plain as day language that is ambiguous due to circumstances.

Can DALPA show that it was operationally reasonable for Delta losing $20+ million a day to keep Compass open? Or was that out of their financial control?

I know we all have our biases for wanting to believe something to be true...but the unbiased look is that Delta and DALPA both think they have strong cases..the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 10:34 AM
  #745  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah
My educated opinion on that, would be Delta mgt claiming force majeure on the ability to implement flow down at another carrier during the pandemic, and CARES act. The arbitrator will likely grant some relief on that, the extent of which, is unknown.
I feel like this is likely as well. Delta may have been banking on it from the start when talking to there lawyers before offering the flow.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 10:41 AM
  #746  
Finessed's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Bornflying
Well then nothing to worry about...Delta will lose those 35 planes in arbitration, it's clear as day, no reason to even talk about it, right?

You must have glossed over the meaning of latent ambiguity...it can be clear, specific, non-ambigious, straight-forward, plain as day language that is ambiguous due to circumstances.

Can DALPA show that it was operationally reasonable for Delta losing $20+ million a day to keep Compass open? Or was that out of their financial control?

I know we all have our biases for wanting to believe something to be true...but the unbiased look is that Delta and DALPA both think they have strong cases..the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
The company doesn’t have a strong case. They need to cover flying for the summer, this was the new and improved way of bending over the pilot group legally. DALPA will win this when company no longer needs the 35 large RJ’s anyways.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 11:05 AM
  #747  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Finessed
The company doesn’t have a strong case. They need to cover flying for the summer, this was the new and improved way of bending over the pilot group legally. DALPA will win this when company no longer needs the 35 large RJ’s anyways.
You might be right, but Delta doesn't need a strong case...it just needs any case, since the burden is on DALPA. DALPA must prove that it was unreasonable to interpret the contract in any other way given the circumstances and that Delta was at fault for doing so (I.e, it was not beyond their financial or operational control).

That said, I'm not for the give in scope...but I certainly do want contractual progression to Delta.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 11:18 AM
  #748  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,869
Likes: 188
Default

Originally Posted by JacksonThunder
Grounding 188 RJs essentially means grounding 9E. Am I right? How many RJs are in the DCI network?
Where are you getting the number 188 from? DALPA is trying to block adding 35 additional 76 seat RJ’s. They are not asking for any RJ’s to be grounded.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 11:18 AM
  #749  
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 2
Default

Originally Posted by Bornflying
You might be right, but Delta doesn't need a strong case...it just needs any case, since the burden is on DALPA. DALPA must prove that it was unreasonable to interpret the contract in any other way given the circumstances and that Delta was at fault for doing so (I.e, it was not beyond their financial or operational control).

That said, I'm not for the give in scope...but I certainly do want contractual progression to Delta.
Amazing how desperate some of you are for flow, JFC.

So let me guess, you want DALPA to give in to scope relief and negotiate something in return, which then allows for 35 RJ’s to fly permanently? Which of course, would allow you to flow, permanently.

You most certainly are for give in scope as long as it generates contractual progression for you.

It’s not very difficult to read through the incentives of a 9E poster on a DL thread.
Reply
Old 05-26-2021 | 11:24 AM
  #750  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
Amazing how desperate some of you are for flow, JFC.

So let me guess, you want DALPA to give in to scope relief and negotiate something in return, which then allows for 35 RJ’s to fly? Which of course would allow you to flow.

You most certainly are for give in scope as long as it generates contractual progression for you.

It’s not very difficult to read through the incentives of a 9E poster on a DL thread.
Condescending much? No, I would prefer the other deal our union has been working for contract concessions. As has been said dozens of times here...these are the cards we were dealt. Saying no would be suicide for our negotiating relations - is that what you are suggesting? Because that would be ridiculous.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ayecarumba
Pilot Health
7
03-27-2013 03:45 PM
EdwardNorth
Career Questions
4
09-27-2011 01:58 AM
1morguy
Major
20
12-05-2007 10:20 AM
joel payne
Hangar Talk
4
04-27-2007 04:49 PM
Turbinebound
Regional
20
02-22-2007 03:08 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices