FL370esq

No doubt. And, a few years through the domestic/NB "salt mine" gives you a new found appreciation for international rotations.

FangsF15

This should actually be very concerning to Mgmt. There WILL be (multiple) NH’s who never flew 121 before the widget, who starts on a WB, camps out for 10 years and the first time they ever fly domestic is as a captain. Heck, even if they did fly a couple years as a regional FO, but is 10/15/20 years stale. Who wants to be that pilot’s sim partner? Or LCA if it gets that far? Even possible to have a WB-only career, in theory.

Totally legal, but not by particularly smart. it will happen.

NYpilot2694

I've been seeing people say certain trips are 'commutable'. What exactly does that mean? Is that just that there is an evening departure and therefore you can commute in that day, or something else to it?

tcco94

Solution to being a very senior widebody FO

upgrade to widebody CA

telling people to downgrade their QOL to fly domestic so they can stay to an arbitrary proficiency level of 2 minutes of hand flying and descent planning is a bizarre suggestion.

tennisguru

At a bare minimum, commutable generally means that you can commute to work (primary flight with a backup) the same day you report, and have at least 1, ideally 2+ flights home after release. Of course that is going to be extremely route dependent. Some people have 6 flights across 2-3 airlines that get them to their hub before 10 AM, others only have 2-3 flights a day total so they need much later starts in the day.

I’d say most people would call anything after noon to be front end commutable, and probably after 1700 for back end. The company has a definition when they post “commutability” but I can’t remember what those times are off the top of my head. Most international is departing late in the evening so you’ve got all day to get to work, whereas a 7AM report probably means having to come in the day before and buy a hotel or crashpad.

JamesBond

Interesting.

tcco94

Yes, very interesting telling people to upgrade and be domestic captain. Who cares what other people do? Lots of paths you can take here and if flying multiple legs a week is one you like, great. Doesn’t make that the suggested path for everyone so you’re aren’t a “lazy international pilot”, as all guys say flying 3 legs a day.

zippinbye

When I checked out on the 747-200, every captain in the IQ class was a first time upgrade, having rotated counterclockwise from the FE panel. It took 15 years at that time. Mind you, some of those guys had been 141 and KC-10 commanders previously. FE to any flying seat was known to have its challenges back in the day, but most made it through okay. Of course it was getting the instrument scan back that took some time, but captain decision making skills were not a problem. The captains I worked with were rock-solid, and it was likely a much safer trajectory flying an aircraft and theaters they already knew inside and out, compared to being dropped into RJ-style flying.

So I'm not sure what the obvious flaw would be in being hired into the 350 and hanging out for upgrade. How do Atlas and and other exclusive WB operators pull it off? Dangerous would be dropping a 10+ year WB F/O into a 717 left seat operating in the high-density NE. It really is like two different airlines between WB and NB at Delta. The only sure-fire cross-training program is the 7ER for all the obvious reasons.

tcco94

The topic is you need to not get lazy and complacent as a WB FO and go do a bunch of bounces as a domestic captain on 737 or 320 to keep your skills up I guess. I’ll never understand this logic. Sure if you plan on being a 320A or 737A don’t go fly a widebody for 20 years then upgrade or you’ll struggle. But begging people to do it so they can be a “better pilot” is a theory I’ve never understood.

YouHateToSeeIt

Another former AS, here. Left last summer.

I got the 220 and had to commute to NY for a few months before getting back to SEA. Even commuting across the country to NY, I was home in SEA more than when I was a 737 SEA FO at Alaska. Now that I’m based at home, it’s not even close.

I say that with the caveat that the 220 FO side is one of the very few (maybe the only) OVERstaffed fleet at Delta right now. So it’s very easy to drop days and move things around. Other NB fleets probably don’t have the same experience. However, SEA 737 people aren’t even sitting on reserve right now, and even the most junior people are gettin lines with 17-18 days off…something I never saw in my almost 3 years at Alaska.

Now Delta has some issues, so it’s not all rainbows and butterflies. If you’re on a NB, you will work harder than you did at Alaska. Alaska trips were much more chill, mostly because they just don’t have that robust of route structure. So lots of 24 hour overnights and then turn around and fly one leg back to the west coast. Delta is max duty day, RIDICULOUSLY long outstation sits, min rest overnight, wash rinse and repeat. It can be pretty brutal and hopefully something is done about it (although unfortunately this new TA fails to address it at all).

Overall though, it’s just a much better airline (whoops) than Alaska and it’s really not even close.

One last thing I will add is that the 220 train seems to be slowing because no one seems to be bidding off of the fleet (because it’s a hidden gem!) so the quickest way to SEA these days is the 737 and A320. Just some food for thought.