Tanker1497

Disagree as far as layover variety. Used to have many more layovers OCONUS when I bid the category in 2016. Currently, the lack of layovers outside the US is hard to fathom. Even more so because it’s the largest category in the company. I’m hoping with the addition of the NEOs that we get back to some good layovers.

Gunfighter

New hires to NYC 7ER started 16 years ago in 2007 as Delta began post bankruptcy hiring. At that time it was a pure long haul international fleet, with flying equivalent to the current A330. By the summer of 2008, 150 of 485 NYC 7ER FOs had less than one year on property. The 767 category performed short international and domestic flying. The music stopped with the two punch combo of age 65 and the NWA merger. The resulting combination of 7ER and 767 eroded the pure international flying. Growth of the A330 fleet further eroded the "Wide Body" flying in the 7ER category.

The amazement is over the type of flying new hires are doing vs what airplane they are flying. In 2007 it was amazing that you could have 200 hours of combined Delta experience in the cockpit over the North Atlantic while the Captain was sleeping. In 2015 it was a big yawn to have a new hire doing domestic WB trips. Today's A330, A350, 765 new hires are akin to the 7ER of 2007 and nothing like the 7ER awards of 2015.

Wolf424

That's just ATL flying in general. I'm not really sure it's any worse or better than the 737 or 320 in ATL. Instead of Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami, you'll be going to Birmingham, Gulfport, and Memphis. The rotations for junior guys aren't drastically different. The biggest difference is on the ER, you'll get the occasional Europe/SA/Caribbean flying. On the bus, the best you're getting is a cross country. On the 737, you'll get the Caribbean. The ceiling on the ER is much higher.

Re: ER flying...

SEAER - Closing
LAXER - Red eyes, plus you're likely long-distance commuting if you're considering ATL
NYCER - You're likely commuting to NYC, and the junior trips tend to be non commutable. It does have the best Europe flying in the system though.

If the goal is ATL, the ER makes a lot of sense. One nice thing about the ATL trips (at least on last month's package) is that ATL had the most commutable rotations on the fleet. It's also the largest category at the air line. Lots of opportunities to SWP/Swap Board.

Nantonaku

Not sure what you are talking about, I was awarded the ER as a new hire. 8 months out of the school house I could fly as much international as I wanted. And most of the first 8 months I was doing a mix of Asia, Hawaii, Europe and domestic.

Wolf424

I think he was referring to ATLER.

Either way:

Shhhh!!! We only fly to FL! Don't tell anyone any different!

tcco94

I wasn’t saying commute to LAX, I was purely saying if you want ER those are the only 2 bases with half the bid packet, at least, of good rotations. ATL 320 and 73N do have short smaller city layovers but also longer layovers than you will see doing the jumps in and out of Florida or the surrounding states. I’d much rather have 18 hours in MEM than 12 hours in FLL.

also, telling new hires you will occasionally get europes out of ATL ER is not factual. Some of the ER SA was even outsourced to our other intl fleets. Caribbean turns and Latin America turns, no thanks.

so sure the overall package is a “higher ceiling” but that’s not helpful for a new hire. That gives them false hope that they rough it out for that ceiling when in reality it would take years to maybe see a Paris (until that is removed off ER) or EDI once if they can pick it up off swap board.

All advice I guess should be taken with a grain of salt, we are all different. But I would not fly the ER in ATL, and I thankfully have seniority to avoid ATL ER flying in my bid packet for my said reasons.

Nantonaku

This WB international flying is exactly what new hires were doing in 2016-2019 out of DTW, SEA and LAX. Or maybe that was just a couple unicorn classes. I just thought it was pretty widespread back then that NH’s on the ER was doing the exact same flying as today’s 330’s. It seemed fairly common at the time. I was doing it and so was everyone else in my class that went to the ER.

ParkingatMIA

how junior is the 320 ATL going?

Wolf424

Never said you did commute. I'm referring to the hypothetical "new hire" if their goal was ATL, hence the ER to 73/Bus comparison.

As far as layover times, nearly every trip in open time right now has at least one 15/16/17/18 hour layover, many with multiple. I see one trip in the next serval days that has two 12 hour layovers...but it's easily commutable on both ends (Noon report, 1800 release). So I'm not exactly sure where you're getting your data.

Frankly, you are flat out wrong on the Europe stuff. You most certainly can get some Europe flying. My last 3 ocean crossings have been with 12.5K and higher seniority numbers. Including one who was on their 2nd Europe trip of the month with a 14K seniority #. Does it require some time on the swap board or getting lucky while on reserve? Yes. It won't be the norm starting out. Saying it's not "factual" is completely incorrect.

The ER flying to LIM is going to the 350, mainly to free up the jets for more Europe flying starting next month. (plus we have those terrible LATAM 350s without true Delta One or wifi and they have to fly somewhere). The GIG flying is seasonal and is shutting down next month (765 is taking it for the last few weeks).

Agreed, we are all different. Different strokes for different folks.

I mean this without malice, but I don't think you have a good pulse on the flying in ATL. Some of it is true, but I'd suggest sticking to your lane (LAX), especially when giving advice to new hires.

tcco94

Fair enough brother. Sorry to rattle those ATL feathers so much about your ER flying.

Guess I’ll tell people you can fly Tahiti at 11-13k because you can snipe the boards at the right time and schedule. Certainly should get new hires excited!