bsh932

I’m going from ATL 320B to NYC 330B later this year. This will be my first widebody and international position, so I really don’t know what to expect. What does a typical European layover look like? It seems like NYC does a lot of 3 day trips with 24 hour layovers. How does everyone manage their sleep? From my understanding, most people nap for a few hours and then get up. Do you have time to actually do anything other than eat dinner with the crew? I’m a photographer so I’m interested in getting out and taking some photos on layovers. I’m the kind of person who will take the train into NYC on a short airport layover just to get a couple hours in the city, so I’m not one to just sit in my room.

FangsF15

Depends on how “deep” into Europe you go, but you will have about a 2-2.5 hour break. DUB is shorter than 2… You will split the cruise time into thirds (assuming 3-man), and catch a nap on the crossing. First break can be tough, as your body may not be ready for sleep yet.

Typically 24-30 hour layovers are what you will see. After clearing customs as a crew (FA’s too), you all get on one pretty nice coach. CDG is notoriously a long drive, but some are as short as 20-30 minutes. The hotels are all 4-star, nicer than any domestic layover. Most everyone will go crash in their room for about 3-4 hours to take a nap. Don’t sleep for more than 3. If you want to pull an Ironman,you can head out on your own, but you should be able to see a fair amount with a nap. After your nap, at least the pilots will meet for dinner around 5-6 local. Usually stay out to a normal local “bed” time. Back to the hotel for a righteous full sleep. Get up (about 3:00 body clock time, but well rested I found),head to airport and fly home.

Sleep management is key. Some hate it, I found I did fine with a couple hours on the plane and a 3 hour bed-nap at the hotel. Maybe a quick on on the drive to the hotel, but don’t waste your sleep inertia on the coach.

Europe is almost always dual commutable. You will enjoy it most of you get out, and almost always you will find we will all hang together, sometimes with an FA or two. Good luck. It’s a different job!

Hopscotch

Typical layover in Europe – My experience is based on the 7ER out of NYC a couple of years ago, so it may not be current or valid, but I found myself in a similar situation as yours. Typically, the layover in Europe out of NYC is around 24 hours. It would take quite a bit of seniority to get the layovers that were 2-3 days, if they even exist post-COVID.

Managing sleep – well it’s really called managing your fatigue. The majority will tell you that when you arrive, sleep no more than 2-3 hours and then get up and go have dinner with the crew. And when your behind in your sleep that’s solid advice, but doesn’t leave a lot for getting around. By the time dinner is over, it’s dark and most things are closed. And that didn’t always work for me. When we still had good destinations (SVO, CPO, TXL, PRG, ARN), and COVID wasn’t around, I loved just getting out as soon as we arrived and playing tourist. But I knew that I was going to have to get solid sleep that night and committed myself to physically running myself down. You’ll find other people might use melatonin or beers to adjust their sleep pattern. Really, it’s trial and error.
And so much of what you ask depends on how you personally sleep. What I mean is, can you sleep going over and back on your rest breaks? Can you get adequate rest by getting 1-2 hours of sleep when you arrive in theatre, and by command drop back to sleep later that night in Europe when your body clock tells you it’s the middle of the day? That is, can you adopt to Europe’s time zone when your body is feeling a different one? If you're young and enthusiastic and can sleep anywhere, you will have a blast. However, if you are the kind of person that likes a good night’s sleep, well it might well be a struggle, but you’ll find ways to adopt. Do a quick search of APC posts and you will find a lot of great info.

It’s really what you want to make of it and how you can manage the fatigue and still have a good time. Enjoy!

bsh932

Thanks for the info. I have 18 month old twins and a 3 month old, so I've learned to manage with little sleep. My wife is jealous that I can fall asleep as soon as I close my eyes. I'm thinking that will help a bit with the rest issues. After 12 years of regional and domestic flying I'm excited about a change. If I don't like it I always have my get out of jail free first upgrade, but I think I'm gonna love it.

ct330a

....flew domestic first seven years then went to international for the last 27. Enjoyed every minute of it. When things normalize more trips will improve and only get more pleasant. Retired with a smile off 330A!!

ERflyer

Have wild crazy sex, preferably not by yourself, after you get to your hotel then sleep 3-4 hours. Have a really nice dinner but don’t drink too much alcohol. If you do it in reverse order and drink too much you won’t get enough sleep.

At least that’s what I’ve been told.

Vsop

We are in a really similar situation. I’ve got 2.5 year old twins and a 10 month old. I’m making the jump to WB B and I’m nervous about sleep. I think if we can make it through infant twins, we can make it through a Europe layover
PS you’re just about to the stage where twins are easier than a singleton because they entertain each other.

crewdawg

Based on your last few sentences, you're going to love Europe. TONS to see and photograph! Fangs sleep info closely mirrored mine. The only exception being if I had the early AMS with the late departure, I'd often sleep closer to 6 hours when I got in and it worked out great. Either way, I generally had more than enough time to get out and about in the town.

Best piece of advice I can give you for sleep is to keep your phone as far away from you as possible and, with the exception of your alarm, keep it on silent. Turn over any alarm clocks and ensure there is nothing that will show you the time when you wake up in the middle of the night (don't look at your phone either). Do not let screens near you when you lay down, they are a huge time suck which will derail your sleep. If you're on first break, make the bed when you go down to preflight the bunk. That saves you a few minutes for when you get down there for your nap. Most crews will want you to keep the blanket down when your break is over (may have changed since rona) and they'll just put their blanket overtop. By the 3rd break, it creates a nice little pillow top lol. Get audio books for the bus rides, some rides can be quite long...cough...CDG/LHR! If you go to FRA a lot, ask their customs people for an extra sheet for stamps in your passport...they stamp every time you enter/exit. I'd also recommend getting the larger book passport next time you renew, it's the same price. If you decide to throw your passport in the safe, put it on your uniform shoe and put them both in the safe, otherwise you may get to the airport and realize your passport is still in the safe. Found out the hard way on that one.

I'd beg to differ on that. While the hotels are more than adequate, I find the rooms of our domestic hotels to be much nicer than most of the European hotels I stayed in. Among other things, it's super annoying that most of them just have the glass door, or glass that covers half of the shower area, which ensures that water covers half the bathroom. Their showers are often narrow and rounded with high side walls and sometimes a step down a few more inches to the floor from the base of the tub. Couple that with a wet floor (reference above) some can be precarious to get out of. I think we had a (younger) FA die a few years back after slipping and hitting their head while getting out of the shower/tub. Depending on the layover, the room heating/cooling can leave something to be desired.

More like an entirely different air line.

bsh932

I'm glad I'm not the only one crazy enough to have another kid so soon after twins. We've got this...a European layover is going to be a piece of cake compared to twins.

20Fathoms

It sounds to me like you’ll love it. There’s always something new to see in Europe (pre-covid at least) and the food and wine is amazing! It’s easy to fall into repetitive routines especially in common places like CDG and AMS (almost all the FAs seem to do this), but I always try and do one new thing or see one new place.

I sleep great in the bunk, but it’s no joke that the wake up from the hotel nap in Europe is world-bendingly awful. Did AMS last month and kept hitting the snooze button for an entire hour. If you ever get the chance to do Asia flying I find it’s much easier from a sleep aspect. Almost gentlemanly even.