30 321NEO orders converted - good news
09-09-2021, 05:23 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,504
Originally Posted by gloopy
I agree that widebodies are better all things equal. Maybe this is cherry picking, but I checked a couple random dates for DL-One vs Mint for trips on the same days and JB was well under half the cost. They don't have to strike revenue gold and out generate existing revenue; all they have to do is reduce yields and dump capacity enough to survive and they win simply by taking existing marketshare. Ignoring them out of an overconfidence about widebodies is a mistake. If they are poaching any premium pax whatsoever (and they clearly are) they are draining legacy airline's most valueable source of revenue and profits. Soon it will be tens of thousands of lay flat seats a year and growing. These aren't $49 cruise ship connection super savers; this is a direct attack on the crown jewels of revenue generation and ignoring it because its "just one flight" or "just two flights" etc will prove to be a complete blunder. This is a serious challenge that will grow significantly going forward. Airlines will either spend the money to deal with it now or they will inherit a far more costly battle long term.
09-10-2021, 07:41 AM
#103
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: fifi flyer
Posts: 553
Originally Posted by El Peso
...All that payload and you can squeeze out a profit, hopefully. How JetBlue intends to make it work in LHR with an A321 is beyond me. Only time will tell I suppose.
09-10-2021, 08:21 AM
#105
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by UGBSM
With the new increased standard pax and baggage weights can the A321 even make it across the pond with a full load? Especially the return flight against winter headwinds?
09-10-2021, 09:15 AM
#106
Optimized
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by gloopy
I agree that widebodies are better all things equal. Maybe this is cherry picking, but I checked a couple random dates for DL-One vs Mint for trips on the same days and JB was well under half the cost. They don't have to strike revenue gold and out generate existing revenue; all they have to do is reduce yields and dump capacity enough to survive and they win simply by taking existing marketshare. Ignoring them out of an overconfidence about widebodies is a mistake. If they are poaching any premium pax whatsoever (and they clearly are) they are draining legacy airline's most valueable source of revenue and profits. Soon it will be tens of thousands of lay flat seats a year and growing. These aren't $49 cruise ship connection super savers; this is a direct attack on the crown jewels of revenue generation and ignoring it because its "just one flight" or "just two flights" etc will prove to be a complete blunder. This is a serious challenge that will grow significantly going forward. Airlines will either spend the money to deal with it now or they will inherit a far more costly battle long term.
LHR slots are expensive and limited, as are any of the “close in” major European destinations. The only reason LHR allowed this to happen is to keep competition fresh and prices down, it’s not a new thing. New airlines come into major hubs all the time to accomplish this. Importantly though they will not get the slots to flood the market with these jets. If you make $10 per pax in taxes, which aircraft are you going to approve 135 or 335? The legacies have gotten used to this. That is why corporate contracts are so important.
If you have 150 of the Fortune 500 companies locked in to TA travel you don’t really have to go chasing every business class ticket, they aren’t going to jump to a competitor quickly. Then it comes down to convenience, schedule integrity, and services. That’s where wide bodies come into play.
Mint may be nice, but a NB just isn’t as comfortable, and cargo capacity gives much more financial flexibility to the route.
JB is a different animal in that they do hold some sway in the corporate contract world. Which is why I think we can’t disregard their threat. The result of this competition will be cabin updates, better WiFi and hopefully more flight options spread throughout the day from more places.
09-10-2021, 10:03 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,987
I've flown JB mint on a trans con and I have to say it was excellent. Honestly rivaled Delta One on the 330. Mint was a little cleaner and had better food and drinks also. Plus happ(ier) FAs. I'm sure their trans Atlantic service is top notch, but at the end of the day it's all about the numbers. We'll see if they can do it profitably and hurt us once business travel and international travel really opens back up.
09-10-2021, 10:36 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,251
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
I've flown JB mint on a trans con and I have to say it was excellent. Honestly rivaled Delta One on the 330. Mint was a little cleaner and had better food and drinks also. Plus happ(ier) FAs. I'm sure their trans Atlantic service is top notch, but at the end of the day it's all about the numbers. We'll see if they can do it profitably and hurt us once business travel and international travel really opens back up.
09-10-2021, 12:21 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
With only 138 seats, probably not a huge issue most of the time. Brochure range for the LR is 4,000nm with 206 pax. Guess we will see though.
09-10-2021, 12:22 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
I've flown JB mint on a trans con and I have to say it was excellent. Honestly rivaled Delta One on the 330. Mint was a little cleaner and had better food and drinks also. Plus happ(ier) FAs. I'm sure their trans Atlantic service is top notch, but at the end of the day it's all about the numbers. We'll see if they can do it profitably and hurt us once business travel and international travel really opens back up.
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