What is funny about all the council 44 posts is generally they have one of the highest no voting percentages on TA’s. I remember a pilot bragging about how DTW and NYC were able to override ATL on TA15. Someone pointed out that ATL actually had a higher percentage of no votes. Bragging quietly ended.

 

So how did you vote on LOA 20-04?

 

Does the answer to that question affect how you feel about crown's post, or do you think that you asking that question somehow cancels the post?

Also, how did you vote on 20-04?

Also, how did you vote on your township supervisor election?

 

Out of curiosity, why would Kirby have a problem on his hands? Isn’t it to managements benefit to drag this out for as long as possible. Another year or 18 months without an agreement saves the company over a Billion dollars. I imagine Kirby is laughing all the way to the bank…

 

I don't think that is entirely accurate. UAL has substantial problems meeting the desired hiring and training levels that Kirby's growth plan entails. That is the reason Pilot Instructors got a much bigger pay raise offer in the TA than anyone else. In fact the company first approached ALPA in December making a closing offer for that very reason, but ALPA declined the offer saying it was to low on pay. That problem will remain if this TA fails, so unless a recession hits that seriously reduces demand I do not think Kirby will be laughing if this TA fails. Of course, all that is one pilot's opinion and we all know how much that is worth

 

Looks like us UAL folk are taking over a Delta thread, but I've got some questions for my DALALPA brothers and sisters about your failed TA circa 2015. All my recollections are from crew van conversations. Here goes:

1) I remember the Joint Venture calculation being a sticking point, something about the percentage calculation being changed from seats to flights, which would have cost you flying due to your international alliance partners generally having larger planes. What were the actual sticking points?

2) I also recall that you recalled/fired a bunch of people from union positions. Whose heads rolled? Chair? LEC reps? NC?

3) How badly did the TA fail?

4) How long did it take to get another TA and did it pass overwhelmingly, or was it close?

5) Is the opinion that the passed TA was much better than the failed one, or just minorly improved with some rearranging of deck chairs and the pilot group passed it because they were worn out?

FWIW, our TA is likely to fail badly. Forum polls are always heavily biased "no", but I've never seen numbers over 90% against before, and there's little being said good about it anywhere. Even the DCA Chair said he regrets sending it to the pilots and will personally vote against it.

 

Kirby can make a phone call , make an amendment
raise the pay 20% Since 1/1/21 with back pay
and 5 % 1/1/23
and 5% 1/1/24
raise LCA to 50 dollars per hour override instead of 27
And keep everything as current contract


Basically an extension
and this TA will pass by 90 percent

 

why?

filler

 

1. The joint venture calculation in TA1 was changed from EASK calculation to block hours. The numbers were set to have a neutral effect at signing. Given the future fleet plans of all companies involved this was a gain for the Delta pilots and a loss for the company. Those fleet plans went forward as expected and we lost the ability to capture more flying. Win for the company.
2. Lots of recalls attempts however if I recall most failed. Makeup of the negotiating committee changed and new MEC chairman.
3. This off the top of my head but I think it failed about 65 to 35. TA2 passed by 82%.
4. Passed 82%. Took 17 months.
5. TA2 was much better overall with one glaring exception. We made it a 4 year instead of a 3 year contract. In your post you actually omitted the big issues TA1 failed. Profit sharing on profits over 2.5 billion was cut in half. This would have reduced PS in 2018 and 2019 substantially. Not much impact after that but hopefully comes back into play sooner rather than later. The company was going to get the ability to pull a percentage of trips required for IOE from PBS to prevent paying F0’s to stay home.

 

Thanks for the response, but I don't understand this part.What is EASK, and did you lose JV flying in TA2 you would have captured in TA1? To give you an idea of the "no" sentiment at UAL, I'd bet our TA fails even worse than yours did.