Contract Expectations
07-25-2022 | 08:15 AM
#331
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
We were due for a pay raise 1/1/2020. The first US COVID case was 1/21/2020. If the company hadn't sprinted into their mediation stall strategy, the cares act funding could have been applied to our new rates. We are due our back wages!! The mediation stall technique means the company takes a loss vs using cares funds. I don't care. It's not our problem. They have made plenty of billion dollar errors, this is just one more. The stalling technique means our raises get paid out of revenue vs cares. It was the company mistake to stall. Pay me may overdue wages!
Anything other than full retro rewards future stalling.
/Rant/ off
Anything other than full retro rewards future stalling.
/Rant/ off
07-25-2022 | 09:26 AM
#332
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 23
From: Hoping for any position
Agreed
The company slow-rolled it and provided incentives for those who wanted the vaccine.
There are a few reasons the company would have to push back hard against this vaccine freedom thing. (1) if the government requires it, the company has to comply (2) pilots used their unvaccinated status to ninja bid away from places they do not want to go (but bid for anyway in hopes of getting bought off) and forcing other pilots to fly those trips (3) the health & safety of their employees.
Frankly, it is my personal opinion that the Delta MEC ended up on exactly the wrong end of this issue. If we had one person die from crime on an overnight there would be outrage. The company does not release these numbers, but at least 6 died from COVID. ALPA has always been about safety, until now.
I am very glad we have the means and methods to treat the new virus. Good to have it in the rear view. It does not need to hold up our PWA.
The company slow-rolled it and provided incentives for those who wanted the vaccine.
There are a few reasons the company would have to push back hard against this vaccine freedom thing. (1) if the government requires it, the company has to comply (2) pilots used their unvaccinated status to ninja bid away from places they do not want to go (but bid for anyway in hopes of getting bought off) and forcing other pilots to fly those trips (3) the health & safety of their employees.
Frankly, it is my personal opinion that the Delta MEC ended up on exactly the wrong end of this issue. If we had one person die from crime on an overnight there would be outrage. The company does not release these numbers, but at least 6 died from COVID. ALPA has always been about safety, until now.
I am very glad we have the means and methods to treat the new virus. Good to have it in the rear view. It does not need to hold up our PWA.
07-25-2022 | 10:06 AM
#333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
Yea. I’ll still retire from Delta around 1200 on the list if I want to fly to 65. My plan is on track to be out of here by 58 though.
My decision was weighed heavily by the fact that I do not see AA being a leader in anything, least of all compensation, quality of life, or contractual provisions. A little more seniority is good, but what is seniority if the contract isn’t good? The contract at my regional was better than AA’s contract. Not so at Delta.
The other big factor was quite honestly the fact that APA is a massive raging dumpster fire. My dealings with them pretty much destroyed any hope I had of things being better when I got to AA. I just don’t see them as being the organization they have the potential to be. Delta ALPA on the other hand is well ran and despite the misgivings of a few on here, is a top notch labor organization.
I like Delta’s business model and brand. I don’t think AA is going away by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don’t think they will look the same as they do now in just 5 years. I think they’ll shrink their widebody international footprint and focus primarily on north/south widebody flying. And I think the AA business model / brand is very unclear.
My decision was weighed heavily by the fact that I do not see AA being a leader in anything, least of all compensation, quality of life, or contractual provisions. A little more seniority is good, but what is seniority if the contract isn’t good? The contract at my regional was better than AA’s contract. Not so at Delta.
The other big factor was quite honestly the fact that APA is a massive raging dumpster fire. My dealings with them pretty much destroyed any hope I had of things being better when I got to AA. I just don’t see them as being the organization they have the potential to be. Delta ALPA on the other hand is well ran and despite the misgivings of a few on here, is a top notch labor organization.
I like Delta’s business model and brand. I don’t think AA is going away by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don’t think they will look the same as they do now in just 5 years. I think they’ll shrink their widebody international footprint and focus primarily on north/south widebody flying. And I think the AA business model / brand is very unclear.
07-25-2022 | 10:51 AM
#334
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Some are trying to hijack the entire union to push their personal religious & political opinions.
07-25-2022 | 10:58 AM
#335
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Yea. I’ll still retire from Delta around 1200 on the list if I want to fly to 65. My plan is on track to be out of here by 58 though.
My decision was weighed heavily by the fact that I do not see AA being a leader in anything, least of all compensation, quality of life, or contractual provisions. A little more seniority is good, but what is seniority if the contract isn’t good? The contract at my regional was better than AA’s contract. Not so at Delta.
The other big factor was quite honestly the fact that APA is a massive raging dumpster fire. My dealings with them pretty much destroyed any hope I had of things being better when I got to AA. I just don’t see them as being the organization they have the potential to be. Delta ALPA on the other hand is well ran and despite the misgivings of a few on here, is a top notch labor organization.
I like Delta’s business model and brand. I don’t think AA is going away by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don’t think they will look the same as they do now in just 5 years. I think they’ll shrink their widebody international footprint and focus primarily on north/south widebody flying. And I think the AA business model / brand is very unclear.
My decision was weighed heavily by the fact that I do not see AA being a leader in anything, least of all compensation, quality of life, or contractual provisions. A little more seniority is good, but what is seniority if the contract isn’t good? The contract at my regional was better than AA’s contract. Not so at Delta.
The other big factor was quite honestly the fact that APA is a massive raging dumpster fire. My dealings with them pretty much destroyed any hope I had of things being better when I got to AA. I just don’t see them as being the organization they have the potential to be. Delta ALPA on the other hand is well ran and despite the misgivings of a few on here, is a top notch labor organization.
I like Delta’s business model and brand. I don’t think AA is going away by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don’t think they will look the same as they do now in just 5 years. I think they’ll shrink their widebody international footprint and focus primarily on north/south widebody flying. And I think the AA business model / brand is very unclear.
07-25-2022 | 11:05 AM
#336
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
The ironic thing is that I’m probably one of the more pessimistic people on this forum. I’m still expecting to be furloughed next year if this recession gets as bad as I think it will. And to be fair, while I do think my generation will have plenty of fights of it’s own (single pilot will likely be the big one), your generation likely absorbed most of the truly tumultuous years this industry had to offer. Post-consolidation this industry is far less volatile at the legacy level.
07-25-2022 | 12:01 PM
#337
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
The ironic thing is that I’m probably one of the more pessimistic people on this forum. I’m still expecting to be furloughed next year if this recession gets as bad as I think it will. And to be fair, while I do think my generation will have plenty of fights of it’s own (single pilot will likely be the big one), your generation likely absorbed most of the truly tumultuous years this industry had to offer. Post-consolidation this industry is far less volatile at the legacy level.
07-25-2022 | 12:03 PM
#338
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,898
Likes: 219
Yea. I’ll still retire from Delta around 1200 on the list if I want to fly to 65. My plan is on track to be out of here by 58 though.
My decision was weighed heavily by the fact that I do not see AA being a leader in anything, least of all compensation, quality of life, or contractual provisions. A little more seniority is good, but what is seniority if the contract isn’t good? The contract at my regional was better than AA’s contract. Not so at Delta.
The other big factor was quite honestly the fact that APA is a massive raging dumpster fire. My dealings with them pretty much destroyed any hope I had of things being better when I got to AA. I just don’t see them as being the organization they have the potential to be. Delta ALPA on the other hand is well ran and despite the misgivings of a few on here, is a top notch labor organization.
I like Delta’s business model and brand. I don’t think AA is going away by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don’t think they will look the same as they do now in just 5 years. I think they’ll shrink their widebody international footprint and focus primarily on north/south widebody flying. And I think the AA business model / brand is very unclear.
My decision was weighed heavily by the fact that I do not see AA being a leader in anything, least of all compensation, quality of life, or contractual provisions. A little more seniority is good, but what is seniority if the contract isn’t good? The contract at my regional was better than AA’s contract. Not so at Delta.
The other big factor was quite honestly the fact that APA is a massive raging dumpster fire. My dealings with them pretty much destroyed any hope I had of things being better when I got to AA. I just don’t see them as being the organization they have the potential to be. Delta ALPA on the other hand is well ran and despite the misgivings of a few on here, is a top notch labor organization.
I like Delta’s business model and brand. I don’t think AA is going away by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don’t think they will look the same as they do now in just 5 years. I think they’ll shrink their widebody international footprint and focus primarily on north/south widebody flying. And I think the AA business model / brand is very unclear.
07-25-2022 | 01:00 PM
#339
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 0
From: Fetal
Doing it the way you describe adds years to the process. The MEC even mentioned that they were opening for virtually every aspect of the contract. That takes time. In the past we focused on a dozen or so key issues. Your house key analogy is good but doing it this way is very time consuming and time is not our friend, it is however the companies best friend!
You also lose credibility when you have ridiculous asks. I posted before I have a nasty habit of buying and selling sports cars. When selling I don’t deal with idiots with crazy offers. I send them home without a car. I once had a car trading in a very tight price range. Basically 27.5 to 28.5K. I listed mine for 28.5 because it was perfect! First buyer showed up and offered 19k. I said no thanks goodbye. He said what’s your counter. I said I have no counter to 19k. He said you have to have a counter it’s expected. I said ok, 29k. He said that’s ridiculous your only asking 28.5k. I said it’s no more ridiculous than your 19k offer. Next buyer shows up and offered 28k. She left with the car! First buyer calls back and offers 26k. So sad car is gone.
You also lose credibility when you have ridiculous asks. I posted before I have a nasty habit of buying and selling sports cars. When selling I don’t deal with idiots with crazy offers. I send them home without a car. I once had a car trading in a very tight price range. Basically 27.5 to 28.5K. I listed mine for 28.5 because it was perfect! First buyer showed up and offered 19k. I said no thanks goodbye. He said what’s your counter. I said I have no counter to 19k. He said you have to have a counter it’s expected. I said ok, 29k. He said that’s ridiculous your only asking 28.5k. I said it’s no more ridiculous than your 19k offer. Next buyer shows up and offered 28k. She left with the car! First buyer calls back and offers 26k. So sad car is gone.
The problem with this analogy is there is no “second buyer” in our negotiations. If you could only deal with the first prospective buyer, would you have taken the same actions? You’d still have the car if you did. Not a bad outcome, but you would rather have the cash and the other guy would rather have the car. Wouldn’t you engage with them to try to find a solution more favorable than you not selling it?
07-25-2022 | 01:03 PM
#340
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 0
From: Fetal
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