30% Raise DOS and 25% DC
08-28-2022 | 01:17 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 282
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
30% DOS W/full retro to 12/31/19 & 25% DC is a pipe dream and will achieve nothing except getting us parked by the NMB. THE reason DL walked out of negotiations is because of our idiotic 11B ask, 25% DC, 1M plus up and MB scheme to appease the Top 20%….who are mostly now gone. These’s still a few loud & angry Chit Chatters left that pack the LEC meetings and spam the Reps with mass emails. 25-30% is probably achievable over 3 years and maybe a bump up to 17-18% DC. TVM of money is a REAL thing and we COULD have had pay raises all along had we opened with something realistic and in the ZOR, which is WIDELY recognized by the NMB. Nope…we went in angry & hot and pounded the table and demanded what we wanted…not what was achievable…and we got parked.
Should we Pi$$ away another 3 years demanding 30% & 25% DC???
Write your Reps. Don’t buy into what the Anger merchants are selling.
Should we Pi$$ away another 3 years demanding 30% & 25% DC???
Write your Reps. Don’t buy into what the Anger merchants are selling.
You ARE the problem with why our profession has eroded over the past few decades. “They’re gonna park us”. Waaaaaaah. Grow a f+++++g set. Jesus.....
08-28-2022 | 01:27 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 282
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
“eye watering gains”. I love that. Airfares have risen in an “eye watering” way. Inflation has been very eye watering thanks to the big spenders in D.C. Well guess what?! My compensation needs to rise in an equally eye watering way and I’m perfectly willing to shut the ********r down to get. (Again).
08-28-2022 | 01:34 PM
#83
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,116
Likes: 532
From: Pilot
Just a point of clarification, 25% DC is DALPA’s position. Our NC wrote a great explanation on it. That is what is required to replace our 60% FAE.
I don’t disagree the numbers are large, but we haven’t seen inflation like this since Jimmy Carter. Don’t be stuck in an old world that no longer exists.
Our new pilots need to marry very well even to own a crappy home in our bases.
I don’t disagree the numbers are large, but we haven’t seen inflation like this since Jimmy Carter. Don’t be stuck in an old world that no longer exists.
Our new pilots need to marry very well even to own a crappy home in our bases.
08-28-2022 | 01:36 PM
#84
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 284
It is crazy when coupled with an expectation of a 25% DC contribution. I'm quite functional doing math, as are you. I really chuckle when some guys (not you) criticize "Moakies" (whatever that even means) for obsessing about TVM, then complain in the very next thought about inflation...the very epitome of TVM in all the worst ways.
I would love to see a 30% raise and a 25% DC contribution. If we get that I'll be the first to eat crow.
But I prefer real results now, even if it doesn't have a "stop the presses" moment, and even more real results later, vs holding out years past the amendable date for the eye-popping numbers some are demanding.... only to then realize that those same numbers are no better than "good" numbers via an on time contract, compounded over years. Yes Covid wreaked havoc, the company is out in left field (parking the DEADHEAD section? there's a patriarchal "let them eat cake" mindset for you) and things are complicated.
I actually trust this MEC and especially the negotiators. I just want to see a good agreement. Living in the real world is a part of that.
I would love to see a 30% raise and a 25% DC contribution. If we get that I'll be the first to eat crow.
But I prefer real results now, even if it doesn't have a "stop the presses" moment, and even more real results later, vs holding out years past the amendable date for the eye-popping numbers some are demanding.... only to then realize that those same numbers are no better than "good" numbers via an on time contract, compounded over years. Yes Covid wreaked havoc, the company is out in left field (parking the DEADHEAD section? there's a patriarchal "let them eat cake" mindset for you) and things are complicated.
I actually trust this MEC and especially the negotiators. I just want to see a good agreement. Living in the real world is a part of that.
08-28-2022 | 01:53 PM
#85
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 833
Likes: 5
From: Captain
TVM is real as it TVQOL. Doesn’t mean settling for crap, but also doesn’t mean waiting 10 years for the perfect deal.
08-28-2022 | 03:58 PM
#87
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 225
Likes: 30
08-28-2022 | 04:07 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: :)
I get it, black swan = s show. Otherwise, stock buybacks during a four year late contract with only an ask of inflation during record RASM? What is a realistic expectation of me?
08-28-2022 | 05:03 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,215
Likes: 664
From: ir.delta.com
It is crazy when coupled with an expectation of a 25% DC contribution. I'm quite functional doing math, as are you. I really chuckle when some guys (not you) criticize "Moakies" (whatever that even means) for obsessing about TVM, then complain in the very next thought about inflation...the very epitome of TVM in all the worst ways.
I would love to see a 30% raise and a 25% DC contribution. If we get that I'll be the first to eat crow.
But I prefer real results now, even if it doesn't have a "stop the presses" moment, and even more real results later, vs holding out years past the amendable date for the eye-popping numbers some are demanding.... only to then realize that those same numbers are no better than "good" numbers via an on time contract, compounded over years. Yes Covid wreaked havoc, the company is out in left field (parking the DEADHEAD section? there's a patriarchal "let them eat cake" mindset for you) and things are complicated.
I actually trust this MEC and especially the negotiators. I just want to see a good agreement. Living in the real world is a part of that.
I would love to see a 30% raise and a 25% DC contribution. If we get that I'll be the first to eat crow.
But I prefer real results now, even if it doesn't have a "stop the presses" moment, and even more real results later, vs holding out years past the amendable date for the eye-popping numbers some are demanding.... only to then realize that those same numbers are no better than "good" numbers via an on time contract, compounded over years. Yes Covid wreaked havoc, the company is out in left field (parking the DEADHEAD section? there's a patriarchal "let them eat cake" mindset for you) and things are complicated.
I actually trust this MEC and especially the negotiators. I just want to see a good agreement. Living in the real world is a part of that.
08-28-2022 | 05:19 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,551
Likes: 100
From: Road construction signholder
If we would have settled for 10/3/3/3 in 2019 where would your TVM be now? 20% raise today which would have lost over inflation. Retro gives you actual inflation numbers. Early and often is BS, it's a perpetual contract, we need perpetual inflation adjusted rates beyond the amendable date.
"But we'll accept nothing less than full retro!" you say. Maybe. Hopefully. Anything less encourages mgmt dragging this process out, and they do. But I'm not sure if it's going to happen. The longer the process takes the harder it'll be to achieve.
I DO agree that we need to rethink our priorities at the table. Getting automatic inflation adjusted pay rates past any amendable date is crucial for any future agreement. We (myself included) have never truly comprehended how hamstrung labor is by the RLA. Maybe mgmt themselves didn't really realize it until lately either. Either way they are gleefully taking advantage of how much they can drag out the process, knowing that the threat of self help is distant, even years after an amendable date.
