Shouldn't 24% be the day 1 bare minimum?
09-26-2022, 05:56 AM
#71
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,131
Originally Posted by JamesBond
The fact is though, they have set a rate. Are we to ignore that rate simply because it is said to be unsustainable? I don't care what Delta plans to do. You have been around long enough that frankly you shouldn't either. You know the five year plan changes every month. I find it very telling that an LCP on a 350 or 7ER makes less per hour than an RJ LCP. Simply mind boggling. "Oh... but that is taken care of in the new contract". Guess what... you said yourself that hiring is going to be cut in half in the spring. So now that all the heavy lifting has been done... and things return to normal... once again "thank you for the job you do every day, blah blah blah" (Oh... but there's no more money in it for you...)
/rant... Just shy of three years to go and I will be shocked if I see a new contract before I leave.
/rant... Just shy of three years to go and I will be shocked if I see a new contract before I leave.
09-26-2022, 06:01 AM
#72
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,356
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Why are we subject to soooooo many reroutes? Selling a 3 hour lead time for a 14 hour lead time. That's FAILURE.
09-26-2022, 06:05 AM
#73
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,131
Originally Posted by sailingfun
This is a post from earlier this year. Those concessions we gave over and over again according to many here sure produced terrible results.
In 2007 Delta’s cost per block hour for pilots was 470.00. In 2019 it was 1239.00. The 2019 cost was probably the highest pilot block hour cost at any airline world wide and did not include profit sharing which would have elevated us even higher. That’s the value of knocking out timely contracts that compound. You also have to understand the RLA and how it functions. It flat out blocks grand slams.
As to your assertion that other parts of the contract have been neglected the DC plan went from 9 to 16%. Sick leave went from 65 hours to 270. Reroute pay improved dramatically. Greenslips went from 150 to 200%. Restrictions on greenslips in months with training or vacation were removed. Reserve duty rigs were improved to match line holders. Reserve pay was increased from a flat 70 hours to a average of 76. We retained the best crew augmentation policies world wide while almost everyone else caved. We improved disability from 40 hours a month pay to 50%FAE including profit sharing and made it fully pensionable. We increased min layover times substantially. We added more reserve days off and obtained early release options. We added a average daily guarantee. We improved on duty guarantees after midnight. We added time limits for return to base on reroutes. We added a enhanced disability account. We increased vacation and training pay. Increased distributed training pay. The above is off the top of my head and probably about ⅓ of the improvements since bankruptcy. The work rule changes alone reduced our productivity 20% from 2007.
In 2007 Delta’s cost per block hour for pilots was 470.00. In 2019 it was 1239.00. The 2019 cost was probably the highest pilot block hour cost at any airline world wide and did not include profit sharing which would have elevated us even higher. That’s the value of knocking out timely contracts that compound. You also have to understand the RLA and how it functions. It flat out blocks grand slams.
As to your assertion that other parts of the contract have been neglected the DC plan went from 9 to 16%. Sick leave went from 65 hours to 270. Reroute pay improved dramatically. Greenslips went from 150 to 200%. Restrictions on greenslips in months with training or vacation were removed. Reserve duty rigs were improved to match line holders. Reserve pay was increased from a flat 70 hours to a average of 76. We retained the best crew augmentation policies world wide while almost everyone else caved. We improved disability from 40 hours a month pay to 50%FAE including profit sharing and made it fully pensionable. We increased min layover times substantially. We added more reserve days off and obtained early release options. We added a average daily guarantee. We improved on duty guarantees after midnight. We added time limits for return to base on reroutes. We added a enhanced disability account. We increased vacation and training pay. Increased distributed training pay. The above is off the top of my head and probably about ⅓ of the improvements since bankruptcy. The work rule changes alone reduced our productivity 20% from 2007.
So in other words, the soft money and QOL gradually returned to pre bankruptcy normal and hasn't really improved. Yet we gave concessions along the way.
09-26-2022, 06:10 AM
#74
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Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: ATL 7ER A
Posts: 307
Originally Posted by GucciBoy
Do you two PM to tell each other how much smarter you are than everyone else?
Neither of those deals contained a single concession to management, and both of those deals contain permanent QOL gains.
09-26-2022, 06:15 AM
#75
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,131
Originally Posted by JamesBond
ding ding ding... winner. And that is the only way we are gonna get 'full retro' too. It would be nice to at least get an inflation adjusted raise for those years, and the big money for the current years but I ain't hopeful. Every day that goes by is in management's favor.
09-26-2022, 06:19 AM
#76
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,461
Originally Posted by Starcheck102
Do you believe that the reps who voted against LOAs 20-03 and 20-04 are gonna vote yes to anything?
Neither of those deals contained a single concession to management, and both of those deals contain permanent QOL gains.
Neither of those deals contained a single concession to management, and both of those deals contain permanent QOL gains.
as much as I disagree with those reps, they were representing at least some pilots wishes.
I still can’t believe 20-04 had as many no votes as it did…but here we are.
09-26-2022, 06:26 AM
#77
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,131
Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
Devil’s advocate: what if the TA had one or two “concessions” like changing PB days in some way but increased our min layover times, shortened our duty day, improved dead head rules and decreased reroutes measurably? Not saying I want that TA but I would look at it.
09-26-2022, 06:50 AM
#78
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Captain
Posts: 827
Originally Posted by sailingfun
What are you talking about? We never had a 3 hour rule with regard to reroutes. We did get a change in our favor where kegs more than 14 hours in the future must go through the trip coverage process.
I got rerouted constantly into legs known more than 3 hours and never got a dime for it.
09-26-2022, 06:56 AM
#79
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,610
Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
Devil’s advocate: what if the TA had one or two “concessions” like changing PB days in some way but increased our min layover times, shortened our duty day, improved dead head rules and decreased reroutes measurably? Not saying I want that TA but I would look at it.
I'm mean, I'll take a peak, I just don't think the company would be willing to give what I'd want in exchange. PB days has given me most of the items you mentioned by flying broken up trips that are vastly better than what's in the bid packet lol.
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