Wake Up - Seattle LEC Election
10-25-2022, 11:29 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,237
Originally Posted by NavyFlyer
Yea, she was on the MEC. And she just supported a failed TA that lost MEMRAT by an 82% margin….
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10-25-2022, 12:13 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: Cirrus CA
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
More details please, what was the deal? Did she get recalled? I really have no clue who she is other than she posted a funny meme on FB that a couple snowflakes couldn't handle.
As I don’t know her either, I started asking around about her from those that have worked with her in the past (as an aside, I don’t care about her meme—I laughed as well).
From an XJT buddy that now has 6 years at SWA and no dog in this fight: “TA ‘04 got turned down by a huge margin. From my old emails, it looks like roughly 82/18. It sucked… a lot. Yea, you wanna stay away from company folk in pilot clothing. She’s the definition of that.”
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10-25-2022, 12:35 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 838
Originally Posted by TED74
And here’s some chatter in loa 20-04:LOA #20-04 — Furlough Avoidance Implementation
Today, the pilot group ratified LOA #20-04 - Furlough Avoidance. With the ratification of the LOA, several changes in the PWA, as well as the status of the Affected Pilots, take effect. This Negotiators’ Notepad identifies the immediate changes and provides a timeline of the delayed implementation items.
Affected Pilots
“Affected Pilots” are defined as those pilots who have a seniority date on or after September 25, 2017, and will transition to the 30-hour “No Fly” status on December 1, 2020.
Affected Pilots currently on a leave of absence (MLOA, PLOA, etc.) will continue to remain on such leaves until the end of their leave or upon approval for their early return. If pilots on leave desire to return early, they should exercise the steps found in PWA Section 13.Any difficulties in returning from leave should be reported to your ALPA representative immediately.
Affected Pilots who do not wish to be contactable under the terms of LOA #20-04, and would like to decline being placed on a 30-hour No Fly status with benefits provided by the LOA, may notify the Company of their preference to take a PLOA within seven days of ratification (November 26 – December 2).
Affected Pilots, except those on a leave of absence, are reminded they have an obligation to monitor Company communications for potential information regarding return to service.
Positive Space Commuting
Positive Space Commuting begins today. Pilots are now permitted to book positive space using the “Company Business” booking tool found on TravelNet under the same terms as travel to/from training, both to AND from their work assignment. Pilots experiencing difficulty in listing for a flight should contact Pilot Assist, and if sales are available, they will assist you in booking.
Positive Space Commuting will be available for no less than 13 full bid periods beginning with the December 2020 bid period. As a reminder, one flight (or sequence of flights if multi-leg) arriving prior to sign-in meets the commuting policy requirement, and no “backup flight” is needed under this provision.
Green Slip Trigger
The permanent change in the Green Slip (GS) trigger becomes effective at the beginning of the December 2020 bid period. The GS trigger will change to the lesser of 72 hours or ALV minus five (5).
Targeted Line Value
The temporary window for the Targeted Line Value (TLV) will begin with the January 2021 bid period. The new TLV window is 72-80 hours, and all positions must remain within a five-hour range within that window. This temporary change to the TLV window will run through the end of the December 2021 bid period unless extended under Paragraph 8. of LOA #20-04 (CARES Act extension.) Should a CARES Act extension occur (or government assistance under any other name), the TLV will revert to the current contractual limit of 75 - 80 hours during the term of the extension.
The permanent reduction to the TLV (to 73-78 hours) will become effective with the first bid period after the termination of the temporary TLV.
Improvements to the ARCOS system
Effective with the December 2020 bid period
Effective with the January 2021 bid period.
Effective no later than the July 2021 bid period
Market Based Cash Balance Plan (MBCBP)
The time periods specified in LOA #20-04 Paragraph 5. E. 2. & E. 3. begin today. The Association and the Company will begin the regulatory approval process as well as developing the plan document within the required time limitations.
Pilots may reference Negotiators’ Notepad 20-12 and Negotiators’ Notepad 20-13 for answers to questions. Additional questions should be directed to your ALPA representative.
Fly Safe,
Chad, Eric, *******, and Rich
Today, the pilot group ratified LOA #20-04 - Furlough Avoidance. With the ratification of the LOA, several changes in the PWA, as well as the status of the Affected Pilots, take effect. This Negotiators’ Notepad identifies the immediate changes and provides a timeline of the delayed implementation items.
Affected Pilots
“Affected Pilots” are defined as those pilots who have a seniority date on or after September 25, 2017, and will transition to the 30-hour “No Fly” status on December 1, 2020.
- Affected Pilots currently in “Unassigned” status will continue to receive compensation in accordance with the current PWA through November 30, 2020.
- Affected Pilots who are still in category for the November bid period will have “FURL” removed from their line and finish out the remainder of the month active in their category with their originally published schedule.
Affected Pilots currently on a leave of absence (MLOA, PLOA, etc.) will continue to remain on such leaves until the end of their leave or upon approval for their early return. If pilots on leave desire to return early, they should exercise the steps found in PWA Section 13.Any difficulties in returning from leave should be reported to your ALPA representative immediately.
Affected Pilots who do not wish to be contactable under the terms of LOA #20-04, and would like to decline being placed on a 30-hour No Fly status with benefits provided by the LOA, may notify the Company of their preference to take a PLOA within seven days of ratification (November 26 – December 2).
Affected Pilots, except those on a leave of absence, are reminded they have an obligation to monitor Company communications for potential information regarding return to service.
Positive Space Commuting
Positive Space Commuting begins today. Pilots are now permitted to book positive space using the “Company Business” booking tool found on TravelNet under the same terms as travel to/from training, both to AND from their work assignment. Pilots experiencing difficulty in listing for a flight should contact Pilot Assist, and if sales are available, they will assist you in booking.
Positive Space Commuting will be available for no less than 13 full bid periods beginning with the December 2020 bid period. As a reminder, one flight (or sequence of flights if multi-leg) arriving prior to sign-in meets the commuting policy requirement, and no “backup flight” is needed under this provision.
Green Slip Trigger
The permanent change in the Green Slip (GS) trigger becomes effective at the beginning of the December 2020 bid period. The GS trigger will change to the lesser of 72 hours or ALV minus five (5).
Targeted Line Value
The temporary window for the Targeted Line Value (TLV) will begin with the January 2021 bid period. The new TLV window is 72-80 hours, and all positions must remain within a five-hour range within that window. This temporary change to the TLV window will run through the end of the December 2021 bid period unless extended under Paragraph 8. of LOA #20-04 (CARES Act extension.) Should a CARES Act extension occur (or government assistance under any other name), the TLV will revert to the current contractual limit of 75 - 80 hours during the term of the extension.
The permanent reduction to the TLV (to 73-78 hours) will become effective with the first bid period after the termination of the temporary TLV.
Improvements to the ARCOS system
Effective with the December 2020 bid period
- All GS and “same day/next day” white slip awards become “proffers” (thereby allowing a pilot to reject either the offer or the award of such rotations without any obligation)
- “Same day/next day” white slip award notification will now occur via ARCOS
Effective with the January 2021 bid period.
- Maximum batch size limits are now in place
- Pilots may choose to auto acknowledge rotations during the “offer window”
- Pilots may choose to auto acknowledge rotations during the “award window” (for rotations with more than 12 hours from initial contact until report time)
- Penalties if batch sizes are violated
- Password expiration extended to 365 days until the Company implements single sign-on
Effective no later than the July 2021 bid period
- Amending of preferences after the offer window but prior to the award window will not alter a pilot’s standing in the current batch
Market Based Cash Balance Plan (MBCBP)
The time periods specified in LOA #20-04 Paragraph 5. E. 2. & E. 3. begin today. The Association and the Company will begin the regulatory approval process as well as developing the plan document within the required time limitations.
Pilots may reference Negotiators’ Notepad 20-12 and Negotiators’ Notepad 20-13 for answers to questions. Additional questions should be directed to your ALPA representative.
Fly Safe,
Chad, Eric, *******, and Rich
10-25-2022, 01:24 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,551
Originally Posted by MJP27
Thanks for posting. Not sure I see any reason for a no vote on this LOA. Somebody who voted no please list the concessions to the company and why it wasn't a win for the entire pilot group. Not to mention potential furloughees..........
1. The TLV would be lower costing those not furloughed hours per month.
2. Work less, but not for less.
3. We can get more from them than this.
4. I was furloughed, why should I save them from furlough?
Edit. I see you wanted someone who voted against it, I didn’t.
10-25-2022, 11:56 PM
#105
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A somewhere
Posts: 395
Originally Posted by NavyFlyer
As I don’t know her either, I started asking around about her from those that have worked with her in the past (as an aside, I don’t care about her meme—I laughed as well).
From an XJT buddy that now has 6 years at SWA and no dog in this fight: “TA ‘04 got turned down by a huge margin. From my old emails, it looks like roughly 82/18. It sucked… a lot. Yea, you wanna stay away from company folk in pilot clothing. She’s the definition of that.”
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From an XJT buddy that now has 6 years at SWA and no dog in this fight: “TA ‘04 got turned down by a huge margin. From my old emails, it looks like roughly 82/18. It sucked… a lot. Yea, you wanna stay away from company folk in pilot clothing. She’s the definition of that.”
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Last edited by FL370; 10-26-2022 at 12:12 AM.
10-26-2022, 08:09 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: Cirrus CA
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by FL370
BS the XJT T/A 04 was about as good it got for the RJ industry. MJ had nothing to to with it. You got your facts so screwed up one could wonder if you are Kanye West.
Again… this is from a buddy at XJT at the time. The first TA got solidly voted down, and the reworked version got approved.
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10-26-2022, 08:34 AM
#107
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,152
Originally Posted by NavyFlyer
Again… this is from a buddy at XJT at the time. The first TA got solidly voted down, and the reworked version got approved.
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It’s funny that this has flared up as I wrote all 3 reps at the time that they were off the reservation for voting against furlough protections. I was a SEA WB FO and happy (ok willing is more like it) to take my 5 hour “paycut” to keep anyone from going out on the street. I pointed out that it was minor sacrifice on the more senior pilots’ part to keep everyone employed. In my view that decision was in the same spirit as the senior pilots paying COBRA benefits for furloughed pilots after 9/11. Mark and Wes both wrote me back and told me I was wrong and that’s not what Seattle pilots wanted. Maybe so, but I still think a union leader should act like a union leader.
I’d sooner write in my kid’s hamster than vote for Wes. He showed me all I needed to know.
10-26-2022, 10:35 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: Cirrus CA
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by FL370
BS the XJT T/A 04 was about as good it got for the RJ industry. MJ had nothing to to with it. You got your facts so screwed up one could wonder if you are Kanye West.
I’m sorry—it was a typo. 2014 contract. Not 2004. You are correct.
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10-26-2022, 10:45 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: Olds 88, Left
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by BravoTo16L
If you want a new contract it's important to have adults in the room that know a good deal when they see one.
3 of the 4 rep candidates can do this. The incumbent Blankenship has shown he cannot be trusted to do so.
He was the ONLY First Officer Rep to vote against LOA 20-04. If you don't remember, 20-04 provided furlough protection for UNA's.
He was against protecting these pilots' jobs. Now he's hoping you won't remember.
By all appearances he is an entrenched DALPA insider that votes the way he's told. His handlers are censoring any attempt to present the real story on the C54 Facebook page and I assume they will be along here shortly to shout this down.
Read for yourself and share with other SEA-based pilots:
c54election.com
3 of the 4 rep candidates can do this. The incumbent Blankenship has shown he cannot be trusted to do so.
He was the ONLY First Officer Rep to vote against LOA 20-04. If you don't remember, 20-04 provided furlough protection for UNA's.
He was against protecting these pilots' jobs. Now he's hoping you won't remember.
By all appearances he is an entrenched DALPA insider that votes the way he's told. His handlers are censoring any attempt to present the real story on the C54 Facebook page and I assume they will be along here shortly to shout this down.
Read for yourself and share with other SEA-based pilots:
c54election.com
I personally know Wes, and this portrait you paint of him couldn't be further from the truth.
I can't think of a better pilot advocate than him, and he battles for the profession on a daily basis. I'm not a member of council 54, but I'd emphatically vote for him, but for now, I'll speak to his character; I speak to him regularly, and he's a great representative for Delta pilots.
As an aside, I don't want to put words in his mouth or speak for him; c54 voters should call him and talk about his decisions. You might be pleasantly surprised as to the clarity with which he sees things, and why he votes the way he does.
10-26-2022, 11:08 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: Olds 88, Left
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by Jodaaddy
Haven’t heard a good faith argument why anyone would vote against 20-04. We would be significantly worse off as a pilot group had it not passed.
NO lower GS trigger
NO lower TLV
NO improvements to ARCOS
All permanent improvements to the contract that we gave up practically nothing to obtain.
NO lower GS trigger
NO lower TLV
NO improvements to ARCOS
All permanent improvements to the contract that we gave up practically nothing to obtain.
The calculations at the time from what I heard had break even 18-24 months off property for a furlough to make sense.
Covid was changing. Vaccines were coming to save the world, VEOPS were leaving. The company was leveraging the UNAs to get relief and some of us saw right through it.
Same thing Summer 2020 with the MOAD. The lies they told about that were the same. And the take backs of the SILS. Lies. Some of us including some ALPA reps called BS.
20-04 was the end of dangling the UNAs for management's needs. Yeah we got a lower GS trigger and TLV. The TLV was supposedly management's win. ARCOS fixes had to happen at some point.
I know it's hard do see if you were on the UNA side of the fence, but from where I sat with emotion taken out of it, there were never going to be any furloughs.
Your anger is misguided. It should be at management for using you. Some pilots fought to hold them accountable, and Wes is your guy.
20-04 as presented is a no brainer, but Wes was one of the ones at the time calling BS. I won't speak for him, but I suspect this was him continuing to vow to hold management's feet to the fire. Call him and find out.
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