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Originally Posted by PilotWombat
(Post 3532056)
So, back to the Vacation AIP. The NC update said this:
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much. I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale. The vacation AIP also said this, "Additionally, the rate at which Delta pilots accrue additional weeks of vacation accelerates...." and this, ".....and the distribution of vacation weeks throughout the year will improve - with particular emphasis on increased vacation weeks being made available for bid in summer months When those on the junior side of the scale achieve additional longevity, they will also benefit from your quoted portion of the NN. |
Originally Posted by PilotWombat
(Post 3532056)
So, back to the Vacation AIP. The NC update said this:
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much. I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale. |
Originally Posted by Roper92
(Post 3532068)
Frontier gets 5 hours a day FWIW. I’m not sure how accrual works over there, but I noticed they weren’t listed in that negotiations update.
year 1-9, 2 weeks year 10-19, 3 weeks year 20+, 4 weeks |
Keep in mind that when you are dealing with contracts the word substantially has a different meaning than you might think. 5% more than a competitor would be considered substantially more.
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Originally Posted by Gundam
(Post 3531998)
You are arguing this to the wrong people. Obviously we are going to use whatever the company proclomation is to improve our position, whether it's accurate or just propaganda doesn't matter. If they sell the idea they gave a raise of x, we will ask for a raise of x at minimum. Pilots don't control FA rates, and the only use of the information for us is setting a floor for rate increases. No one here is blocking FAs from getting a larger raise, it would be helpful if you did actually since that only moves the floor higher.
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Originally Posted by DALFA
(Post 3532077)
Understood. My point is that the company hasn't said that's what it is. They used multiple examples and one of them was 16% just like one of them was 4%. Is 16% possible? If you purposely fly the worst domestic trips in our bid packet yes. But this would be an exception, not the norm.
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With IVDs, there is no reason you can’t carve out a sizeable summer vacation for yourself. I have been using my garbage vacation weeks and plopping them during the summer. Has worked great. They won’t get you holidays but my family summer vacations have not suffered. I hope IVDs stay codified or maybe even improved upon. They are great flexibility.
That said, I’m glad they are addressing the barren wasteland that is the summer vacation week availability. |
Originally Posted by PilotWombat
(Post 3532056)
So, back to the Vacation AIP. The NC update said this:
In their At The Table 22-02, the showed some contract comparisons that included all of those carrier plus UPS and FedEx. With that, I think we can assume that the "value" is between the top of the passenger carriers and below the bottom cargo carriers. For a 6 year pilot, that's 93 hrs at Southwest and 105 at UPS. For a 20 year pilot, that's 155 hrs at Southwest and 175 at UPS. Take that by the 21 and 35 days of vacation respectively, and it sounds like they got something between 4.5 and 5 hours per day of vacation. That's a huge step up, but it's still not equal to a min-day amount. Alternatively, that could included more vacation days, but I doubt that changed much. I'm looking forward to see what they did in terms of selecting vacation weeks, because right now that blows for anyone on the junior side of the scale. I would think the company would rather pay us more than give us more days off, but who knows… |
Originally Posted by DALFA
(Post 3532077)
Understood. My point is that the company hasn't said that's what it is. They used multiple examples and one of them was 16% just like one of them was 4%. Is 16% possible? If you purposely fly the worst domestic trips in our bid packet yes. But this would be an exception, not the norm.
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One other thing that struck me from the NN:
“made significant progress on numerous secondary items in Section 3 – Compensation” Could “boarding pay” be included? “Establish Door Pay” was in our opener... That would be a massive gain, as domestic rotations would effectively add nearly an hour’s pay to ADG. |
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