99.9% of younger/new hires are just happy to finally "make it" to the big leagues. We do 100% sympathize with the struggle. You absolutely "paid your dues". But here's the problem. Some of those that had it really hard have a "i got screwed and had it rough and so should you" mentality. Saw plenty of that in the military and it doesn't lead to anything productive. Those same guys that got screwed take it personally. They truly point the finger at us for things outside our control that happened to them. So the company and circumstances of the past took it from you and now you expect me to fix it, oh and if i don't I'm now who's to blame for your financial situation. I'm genuinely on your side and down to help you. But if it doesn't turn out it's not my fault

 

We all go into the voting booth and pull the lever that gets us personally the most(and push our reps with our agenda). Unfortunately, all the negotiating capital in the previous 3 contracts has been to get pay back up...then recapture QOL. Nobody said you were responsible for the past ... I wasn't responsible for B scale...but I pushed for and voted to eliminate it. The only agenda I'm pushing is the perspective of younger guys insofar as, " Tough tata's, I didn't do that . You should have fixed it in previous contracts if it was that important". It just seems self serving....almost as much as some of the vocal "pie in the sky" money grabs that a very few older pilots espouse. I just think something palatable could have been crafted.

None if this is my concern...not gonna affect me, but I can still empathize with things that need fixing....B-scale, commuting for probationary pilots, commuter paid parking, trip scheduling improvements, pay banding. etc. Basically all the important stuff has been fixed or is making great strides to being fixed except the relatively short time horizon to accumulate assets after bankruptcy. Yes , it's been 17 years since BK but just looking at the graph of pay rates and saying "You should have saved better", is analogous to telling someone on minimum wage they should save more. (NO, I'm not equating airline salaries even after BK to minimum wage) but the principle is the same. People usually only have so much disposable income and after a 45% pay cut how much disposable income remains?

BTW... I'm out. But these are some of the same philosophical discussions I have with my kids. I call it perspective...others call it, " Hey Boomer, GTF outta here"!

 

Good points on both sides of the discussion here. Coming from the younger side, when I got to DAL I was actually pretty educated on the trials of pilots older than me. I already knew about the huge paycuts that happened across the industry in the early 2000s.

At my previous airlines I flew with many CAs that had had interviews/class dates canceled last minute (and then zero hiring for years), furloughed from multiple 'sure-bet' airlines, or just plain bad timing (family issues that didn't allow a pay cut to make the big jump).

All that to say, I understand what DAL pilots went through, I get it, but like has been mentioned sometimes a little perspective is needed. Like the many pilots I flew with that ended their career not flying a 777 to LHR but instead after a couple of furloughs they made their last flight on a CRJ making 1/3 the pay. So excuse me if I'm a little cynical about the pilot that spent the last 7-8 years in primo seniority, never furloughed, that lectures me and makes it seem like they are going to have to get a job pushing shopping carts at their grocery store because of how short they are on retirement.

 

This is where they jump in and say "nothing counts until you step on property.". They don't want to acknowledge how bad it was at regional airlines and they say that's not their problem.

 

And there's where a lot of the animosity comes from. They want sympathy and empathy they won't give in return. They want to be made whole but you never get the feeling they want it for the betterment of the profession or to pave the way for their fellow pilots.No, it's all about them. They never want to acknowledge that other people in the industry also had it bad, or even worse than them.

And I want to make it clear that my heartburn is with these select, specific rotten apples, and not all senior dudes that got screwed as a whole. But we all know these loud minorities at the extremes tend to ruin things for the rest of the rational folk in the middle.

 

I voted yes for the second time in my career. TA2 in 2016 was my first yes. We’ve all gone over everything. I truly believe a no vote will set us way back at this point. Even some of the original no voting reps have said we’re past the point of no return. Time to move on. Hopefully next contract is a much quicker process that fixes the small things leftover. 5:15 per cq training instead of 5, etc.

 

It would also be intellectually dishonest for those pilots not to admit they are part of a generation that allowed the RJ outsourcing.

 

Of course it is but intellectual and honest is not how I be would accurately characterize their attempts at gaslighting and money grabbing

 

I think this vote will be closer than people think. Especially since there are 2000 "young" pilots on probation.

 

Ah…No…easily passes 80/20.