Originally Posted by Gundam

Unless there was a federal law fully protecting/insuring pensions then I don't think it makes sense for any individual company. I think a federally insured pension tied to the individual so you could change jobs would be a good idea. In theory that could just be social security, but people don't conceive of it in that way and assume a more complex financial instrument and private middlemen are necessary to be paid adequately in retirement. Pensions that are totally in the hands of a company until they are threatened or gutted in bankruptcy are a terrible idea to me. I don't trust any law will be made in the interest of labor in the foreseeable future and so prefer direct contribution. Once deposited its yours in total and not vulnerable to adjustment or threats or anyone telling you what you need to settle for, only the swings of the general market. Not ideal, but it seems better than losing the pension by way of some loop hole.

Originally Posted by nene

Ahhh Padawan...as the FED debt just blew through $31Trillion (doing 1000mph), I have no doubt that there will come a day in the future when anyone that has sooooo much in retirement savings, well its just not "equitable" in the terms of today. Those will be "invested" in the FED govt in a way that will provide you with an equitable, FAIR, retirement, commensurate with the rest of the population. The youngest amongst us are the MOST vulnerable to this threat, but seem to be blissfully unaware. I guess time will tell.

Originally Posted by Gone Flying

to answer the second question.there were two basic setups for pension plans, DB only and both DB and DC.

DL had a DB only plan and formula was (2.4% * YOS * FAE) where YOS was years of service (max 25) and FAE was your highest 36 consecutive months of earnings in your last 120 months. So as long as you had 25 years you got a 60% FAE pension. NW and US air were similar.

AA and UA had a both DB and DC setup, they had an A fund (pension) and a B fund (DC plan). UAs formula was (1.5% * YOS * FAE) with no cap on years of service PLUS an 11% B fund. AAs was similar except it was (1.25% * YOS* FAE) and excluded your first year.

now my opinion is we should absolutely not try to resurrect a DB only pension. IF we decide to go down that road I would much prefer a plan similar in setup to UA’s old plan or UPS’s current plan where you get a smaller DB plan benefit but also have DC money that is yours in addition to that.

UPS current plan as I understand it is a 12% DC plan plus a DB plan where you get the greater of (1% * FAE* YOS) or a fixed dollar amount (I think $4500) * YOS. In both cases YOS is capped at 30 years.

Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo

Nothing stopping the feds from taking your 401 and distributing it equitably. Just one congress and a signature away.

We must be diverse, equitable and inclusive dontcha know.

Originally Posted by overqualified52

Does UPS do both a 401K and pension or you choose between the two ?

Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo

Nothing stopping the feds from taking your 401 and distributing it equitably. Just one congress and a signature away.

We must be diverse, equitable and inclusive dontcha know.

Originally Posted by badflaps

You just really can't trust the Co. to be fair. Whom ever said "This isn't the old Delta" was spot on. Keep an eye on the dealer.

Originally Posted by overqualified52

Any thoughts or ideas on ever getting pensions back and what would be a good pension plan ? Does anyone remember what some of the pension plans were back in the day ?

Originally Posted by nene

That was the point of my response. Gundam was hoping for the good ole FED Govt to take over all retirement planning (ala SSA) and we, as good peasants, just work and wait for the FEDS to make it equitable for us.

My point was that unfortunately, we are probably only a few dozen more $$Trillion away from the govt deciding that seizing assets to make things fair is only equitable way out. When the FED Debt INTEREST exceeds all other spending by a mile, you will start to see more and more of the country cry out for essentially a "reset". Student loan forgiveness will just be the opening salvo, as progressivism is not happy until everyone is equal in their own misery.