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m3113n1a1 03-01-2023 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by buckleyboy (Post 3599725)
I think I am on a fleet where it is active, and I don’t even use the html other than to open the file from email to do initial ACARS loading/tell FAs the flight time. Otherwise, I like the paper and prefer to keep it.
Planning to bid a Huff Daland and be based in MLU next AE, too.

The paper release, while antiquated, is the last leverage we have over gate agents. Gate agent doesn’t get it until everyone on the crew is happy. We should keep it for that reason alone.
Send the flames.

You'd hate flying with me then! I leave the stupid piece of paper with our illegible names up at the gate if we're both there to sign it.

notEnuf 03-01-2023 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3599726)
The Gate agent is required to check in with you before they close the door. Paper not needed. Brief the FA that the door stays open until you give the thumbs up.

Unless you're in the lav. I've had many gate agents pull the jetway back with an intense frown. They only care about the door time. Out time only matters to the ramp.

Release 2? WHAAAAAAT!?!

CBreezy 03-01-2023 06:37 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 3599831)
Unless you're in the lav. I've had many gate agents pull the jetway back with an intense frown. They only care about the door time. Out time only matters to the ramp.

Release 2? WHAAAAAAT!?!

That's why it's simple. Tell the A that the gate agent MUST get your approval to close to the door. I've handed them the paperwork before while they were in the lav but told them to wait until the Captain says we are good to go. I've never once had anyone not wait.

notEnuf 03-01-2023 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3599835)
That's why it's simple. Tell the A that the gate agent MUST get your approval to close to the door. I've handed them the paperwork before while they were in the lav but told them to wait until the Captain says we are good to go. I've never once had anyone not wait.

They know their job. If they close the door without checking and I need something, it's on them to open it. I don't need to brief the FA on the GA's job. Mistakes are the best teachers.

CBreezy 03-01-2023 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 3599850)
They know their job. If they close the door without checking and I need something, it's on them to open it. I don't need to brief the FA on the GA's job. Mistakes are the best teachers.

Yes, of course you can make them pull the jetbridge back up to the airplane in the 2% of times you need to. It's a much stronger action to never let them close it without your permission. That needs to happen 100% of the time.

OOfff 03-01-2023 06:48 AM

How does every paperless airline deal with maintaining a pilot’s “leverage” over the gate agent?

christ, leverage over your coworkers is such a ridiculous concept.

Gspeed 03-01-2023 06:54 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3599726)
The Gate agent is required to check in with you before they close the door. Paper not needed. Brief the FA that the door stays open until you give the thumbs up.

I haven’t seen Delta play this game yet but my old employer did. I always held the release until the door was ready to be closed.

Q-31. Do all FDP extensions require pilot-in-command (PIC) concurrence?
A-31. Yes, all FDP extensions require PIC concurrence. The PIC must be aware of the need for the FDP extension before he/ she concurs, and if the extension is 30 minutes or less, the concurrence can be via a fitness- for-duty affirmation. The PIC cannot give advance concurrence in an FDP extension before he/she knows about the need for an extension.

CBreezy 03-01-2023 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by Gspeed (Post 3599857)
I haven’t seen Delta play this game yet but my old employer did. I always held the release until the door was ready to be closed.

Q-31. Do all FDP extensions require pilot-in-command (PIC) concurrence?
A-31. Yes, all FDP extensions require PIC concurrence. The PIC must be aware of the need for the FDP extension before he/ she concurs, and if the extension is 30 minutes or less, the concurrence can be via a fitness- for-duty affirmation. The PIC cannot give advance concurrence in an FDP extension before he/she knows about the need for an extension.

There are lots of arguments to be made about why the gate agent has to check in with the CA. They don't know if MX has been called. They don't know if we are still fueling or waiting to be fueled. They don't know if all the pilots are even on the airplane. At my old airline, the gate agent would ask the lead and the lead would stick her head in and say "good to close?" You don't need a piece of paper to have that authority.

Gspeed 03-01-2023 07:05 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3599861)
You don't need a piece of paper to have that authority.

You do when you work for a bunch of dirt bags who’ve been emboldened by the local FAA office. It’s not a problem until it is.

CBreezy 03-01-2023 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by Gspeed (Post 3599870)
You do when you work for a bunch of dirt bags who’ve been emboldened by the local FAA office. It’s not a problem until it is.

Have you ever worked for a regional? I can assure you there were way more dirtbags where I worked than where I work now.


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