NH Noord is a 15 min walk to the free ferry over to downtown. Also a nice little area of shops and restaurants with nice park near the hotel. I never understood the problem with it?

since you’re plugged in with people “in the know,” what was the ask?

Yeah, I forgot you added that nugget to your contract. So, in affect, you have negotiated for your own benefits. Apologies.

TA2 passed with 82% IIRC. And most of those no voters are likely gone, so your 25% seems more like a variable, not the constant you are claiming. Not sure your analysis is very accurate.

Everyone seems to forget that back in 2019, inflation hadn’t happened yet and we had seen annual rates between 1.5-3% for decades. We were just coming off the heels of a 30% raise under TA2. Look at any of the comms put out leading up to the opener. Do you see any mention of pay whatsoever, other than the goal of being industry leading on every type of aircraft?

I’m told by a very reliable source that ALPAs pay opener back in 2019 was closer to 12/5/5. That’s quite a bit different than the narrative Sailing is trying to paint about 20/8/8 or whatever nonsense his flight ops buds want to use to justify their foot dragging in 2019.

I’m still waiting to hear if he believes the comprehensive gains in every section were worth doing, or if they also should have been scrapped in the name of expediency and TVM.

Because it’s a 15 minute walk to a ferry to get downtown, rather than staying downtown… I don’t know why we always stay in the burbs, especially when the contract stipulates otherwise. Zurich same deal.

What’s it like to be afraid of your shadow and order room service at all of your layovers? Just curious how this profession works for perma-doomsdayers.

As always, your numbers are significantly off. I'm not sure why you feel the need to come on here and blast away with incorrect data, but I highly suspect a narcissistic obsession to try and "prove" you were right, or connected, or the self-annoited voice of reason. Very "airline piloty" of you. Out of all of this, 25% DC and 260 hours (also incorrect) is what you are down to? Oh sorry, there's the 3 billion plus and 150 million (also wrong) one time payment. Never mind a completely egoistic flight ops leadership (replaced midstream) who didn't realize that despite full retro in C2015, they weren't supposed to stall negotiations. Never mind the single most (real or manufactured) devastating economic event ever, never mind the absence of concessionary bargaining during said time, never mind the usual complete lack of any support within the industry for pattern bargaining, never mind the simultaneous parallel global scope agreement (shoutout to the former ATL Chairman for forcing the hand) which benefits the Company exactly "zero" but finally secures wide body job protections with teeth without having to go through a very biased RLA grievance process. Never mind the sheer number of items (many of which are undoing the concessions of the past) achieved in this contract, and never mind having to navigate all of this this with a social media obsessed MEC (and one MEC chairman) - some of whom were bound and determined to scorch earth in any way possible to ensure a complete failure of anything and everything.

In the meantime, my thanks go out to the office staff, committee SMEs, NC and the eventual MEC Administration, who navigated all of this brilliantly and brought forth the single most lucrative airline contract ever - while the airline went through the gamut of historically profitable to historic losses to relatively profitable. It ain't perfect, and it ain't the opener (congrats sailingfun for your marvelous grasp of the obvious and inevitable) but it's really damn good.

For those who have seen these types of special payouts; I'm assuming the payout will be separate from our normal paycheck? If so, do we expect to have an election tool for Fidelity similar to our profit sharing election tool? Answer might be in the sky hub today...but I'm on the road.

Thanks
BC

Yes to the separate payment. Don’t remember if we had a special election tool or not.

Please explain everything you know about NFLY. Based on your "free time off" comment ya might save yourself a lecture

Hotel is still not great depending on which room you get assigned out of the roulette.

Bar is great. Gym is so so.

Van service to downtown is useless, faster to walk or take the train to central.

The location has been steadily improving over the last 6 years. Getting gentrified with new bars, restaurants and art galleries. We will still likely stay there from time to time but I’ll miss it.

Museum quarter is a great location but still not a great hotel with a below average bar and gym.

Museum Quarter is closer to Schiphol than the Noord. Zuid is even closer. Just saying.

The one-time payment is not pensionable by the company and you cannot contribute any of it to your 401k, but it also does not count against the income limit (330k?) for 401k contributions. Because of this I would think there is no need for an election tool.

The part from this year is

I think they'll be paid in two separate checks too if you read the MOU. Sounds like they only have 30 days to pay us 2020, 2021, and 2022 not retro. But longer to pay us our 2023 retro.

What/where is your source for this info? Are you saying I can’t even make a 401a after tax contribution from it?

you can do that from your own bank account, so of course you can

What in the world are you talking about? all made up. whoever in mgmt is feeding you this stuff is making you look like a buffoon.

everything you have posted in this (and every) negotiating cycle is a play to either a.) fall over yourself trying to get a quick, company-centric contract or b.) trash all attempts to see through a comprehensive, pilot-centric contract, even if it takes more time. Extreme leverage this cycle, and you're still mad we didn't settle early for less. Stupefying.

when do you retire, or are you already retired?

Yes, I was only talking about the one-time payment, which is the 2020-2022 "retro". It has been stated elsewhere that the back pay to Jan 1 of this year will be pensionable and will also have whatever your normal 401k deduction set to drawn from it. I also don't see the reason why the company would make an election tool for this.

So, we will be getting 4 checks this month:

15th/30th normal paychecks
One time payment of 4/4/14 2020-2022 earnings. Not pensionable, no personal 401k contributions. I'd also assume no HSA deductions. Supplemental tax rate of 22% federal + all applicable SS/medicare/state/local taxes + ALPA dues taken out,
Retro payment of new pay rates applied to Jan and Feb earnings. Pensionable and will deduct your normal 401k contribution percentage.

Douchery at it's finest

I guess I missed something. We can’t put our own money from the one time payment into our 401k? Where did you see this? Was there a reason?

I fondly remember the walk to the ferry as generally pleasant (weather dependent) and there used to be some restaurants on the water not too far from the ferry crossing on the NOORD side that were great when the weather was nice. Ridden the ferry over a dozen times and thought it was pretty convenient. When I was last there over 6yrs ago, the area had really started to become more reinvigorated with new shopping and restaurants.

Unless someone has seen a different timeline, I'm expecting 3

-15th
-31st
- the one for the one time payment (2020-2022)

im assuming the 15th will have the difference for our February retro in it, since it is our flight pay for February, with the possibility they will just put the difference for January on that check as well.

Go read our published opener. The vacation part was published. Yes you have to do the math to determine the ask but it’s pretty simple. 7 weeks of vacation at our 6:00 ADG ask is 252 hours so I was a bit high.
• Provide ADG pay for each vacation day
• Restore vacation week accrual to pre-bankruptcy level
• Increase flexibility, number and value of IVDs
• Require that vacation weeks are evenly distributed throughout the vacation year
• Expand vacation slide usage
• Improve a pilot’s ability to travel during their vacation
• Establish other improvements to vacation

https://dal.alpa.org/Portals/1/Docum...g-proposal.pdf

This. I expect our next paycheck to have all the retro on this year’s earnings. Then I expect the signing bonus check later in the month as a separate check.

This is what I expect. What happens might be completely different. Surprised there hasn’t been guidance put out yet by company.

After reading memo, looks like they’re giving info out at 3pm today on skyhub meeting. I’ll just wait for the memo.

I think it has to fully one way or the other for IRS purposes. If we want to put some of it into our 401k then the whole amount has to count towards the contribution income limits. Since we're not getting company DC on it that sets us back as someone could hit the 330k cap on earnings before getting their full 66k 415c allotment in there. Not being able to add money to your 401k keeps it cleaner since that money also won't count towards the 330k income cap on contributions.

I think there is a sky hub town hall today, I wonder if it will be addressed then?

that makes sense, bummer tho.

Guess you can't be responsible and save it for retirement now and will have to buy a boat instead!! :D

haha I guess so!:D

Good pilots already bought their toys and need the payment for the payment.

I know a lot but the applicable comment was related to the contract. Specifically, prior to today, if you tested positive for Covid or directed to quarantine, you were removed from trips and paid, period. Now, that NFLY time will come out of your sick bank but will not be subject to lookback provisions.

What's missing here is that prior to today, you could also be pay protected on NFLY if someone in your immediate family tested positive for covid. that's gone. No doctor's note required. Contractually, we can't even use our sick banks for that now.

I know a few pilots who utilized NFLY to protect pregnant wives and newborns, with Dr. notes directing them to quarantine--sometimes for weeks before and after the birth--in cases of high risk pregnancies or babies with health concerns. That's gone.

You can in “state sick” states.

that's a pretty weak rationalization. Pathetic, actually. how many Delta pilot bases can use state sick? three?

those laws vary from state to state. completely disingenuous to state that a pilot can use state sick any time spouse/kids test positive. state sick also comes out of a pilot's sick bank, and counts toward lookback.

Don't forget the amount of harassment Delta applies to individuals attempting to use state sick.

Let's just be honest about what we negotiated away.

If you say so.

oh yeah, I was just clarifying, not rationalizing. But I’ve used it many times with no harassment at all

Bayboat ordered 3 weeks ago, pick up on Monday!

Exactly. Running along the water out there is great. Downtown, not so much. If I wanted to be adventurous I could always jump on the ferry. Easy peasy.