Dislike or even hate AA, but it’s as safe as UA and DL in terms of job stability. The rest of factors, we can have pros and cons. Job security is not of the cons.

 

Well... you can choose to listen to the wealth of CEO-level knowledge on APC. Don't you know that all of us here can all run our airlines far better than any airline CEO? We know what needs to be done.... if those idiots in C-suites would only listen to what we have to say.....

Good luck to you kid... I think you're far better off not jumping around, especially these days. The numbers are what they are and they don't lie. I also think you should either go pick up a trip and go earn some $$$$, or go take a vacation someplace and take advantage of off-season prices at some nice resorts and destinations...

You stand to get screwed far worse by APC (and FB) CEO's and APC pilot career counselors, than by BoJo and Southwest.

 

One thing I can't recall reading is how long the OP has been at WN. There is a point where the seniority where you currently are overrides the benefit of moving. I started my major career later than many so I could see a 30 year-old having just started there.

You need to evaluate what you want for the next 35 years. If you're happy with the type of flying you're doing at WN and can see yourself doing it for the next 35 years, there's no sense chasing the green grass.

If you want to fly something other than a 737 (domestic OR international/NB or WB/3-pilot or 4-pilot/'short international' or 'ultra-long-haul') or would prefer to drive to work in a different base, evaluate what you'll be giving up. Talk to the family and include them in your decision since it'll affect them as well.

 

your point is valid

 

👍🏿 APC counselors are very knowledgeable agreed

 

I am one of those that came over from SWA in the summer of '23 and as someone that has lived both sides, I am happy to add my opinions and help in any way I can.

As many have stated above, giving up seniority at one place for the possibility of another is a tough ask. I left SWA with six years of seniority and no sight of an upgrade on any horizon. Even now, I still cannot hold CA at SWA. While not the end of the world, I was considered a high time flyer and with that made pretty good bank. I had many late night conversations with people at both places including the likes of Freightdog and others. One thing I learned and I am sure you already know, there is no magic answer. Everyone will have a different reason and outcome.

I arrived at the tail end slide of the "wave". I missed the super fast movement that those from 2021-beginning of 2023 got. With that, I did move quickly to 50% in my BES (Base Equipment Seat) and enjoy a pretty amazing QOL. I agree with many above that those times are behind us and a more normal progression will be seen. With the further deliveries of 330 and 350 aircraft, I am interested to see where the seniority ladder will go but only time will tell how the progression will go in reality.

I suggest a pro/con list as well as a spreadsheet for earnings. This might give you tangible nonbias information.

While I enjoyed my overall time at SWA, the people, as well as the earnings potential, I was never truly happy at work. It allowed me to do all the other things I enjoy in my life and that was a great enough reason to stay. But going to work felt like work and everytime I had to go, it stung more and more. I could not see myself doing it another 20 years and so I chose to leave. It worked out well for me as those things I did not like at SWA aren't here, my QOL at work now is considerably better and I actually enjoy the trips I have. I know some will say they do not care about the trip, only its productivity and that if they want to go on a trip they will buy a ticket for them and the family, but in reality going to work can be as fun as you make it and there is nothing wrong enjoying what you do and where you do it. That is just me and your feelings will be different.

Some differences and similarties I can throw out which are only my opinion:
- Longer layovers at downtown hotels at Widget. My wife and kids sometimes even join.
- Crew meals (mixed bag but they are there)
- SWA has ELITT, Widget has Swap with the Pot (same concept with different execution)
- PB Days for reserves if you work a day off (magic basically)
- Might get torched, but I like PBS as I get to fly what I want and not a set bag with some good layovers and others that suck and hope to swap with.
- Intl flying on the NB with some pretty great layovers in Aruba, DR, Mexico, Costa Rica, etc. I basically only bid those and if I layover domestic it is only because it is part of the trip. Sometimes I hold pure such as one leg to CUN, long layover and one leg back. Those are gold in my opinion.
- SWA has better medical coverage with the Regular Plan
- Calling in sick is easy but you could get hit with a good faith basis call from a CP which requires you to get a doctors note like a child. It is just a pain but managable if it happens to you. I have not received such a call. SWA seemed easier and no such calls. The process is click to sick which is nice and I think both companies now have that.

Not at all a full list but you catch my drift.

At SWA, I consistently flew 140TFP+ and while the money was great, I find doing 120 hours here much easier, not as tiring, and manageable. Sometimes I will go hard one month just to take most of the next month easy. I am a happier person after trips to the point my wife has voiced her opinion on how different I am and overall happier. I am not exhausted after every trip as I was in my past life, although some widget guys and gals may see 120 hours and say that is nuts. Point is, there is something for everyone, from NB to WB, A or B, domestic or international. Your career here can take you different places and seats while at SWA my retirement flight would have been like my new hire IOE flight, just pick your day if you are senior enough. I would be making more money at SWA but working much harder for it. I learned money is not everything and it has made me better for it.

Even though the wave is over, 500+ retirements are still happening and barring the next world calamity there will be slower movement. You may start as a 717B and enjoy the Burgs and Villes for a couple of years and then say you want to fly the little bus and then the big bus or move to the left seat of a 717 but point is you will still have options. Good or bad, the days of one year 767 captains are over but with every crest of a wave, there is another sort of wave around the corner. I have 20 years left, I do not regret my decision and wish I came earlier to have enjoyed more of the wave but I will say that life is to short to wonder and regret. Do what is best for you and your family, make smart choices, and let me know at 65 (or 67) how it worked out.

If you do come over and if I am in the left seat, burgers and beers are on me. If you stay at SWA and we bump into each other at some layover, the same holds true. I am happy to answer any quesitons you may have and wish you the best of luck in your career and life.

Stay Frosty

 

This is a great post, thank you for taking the time to write it out.

 

Great post - I really appreciate it. This thread has been surprsingly helfpul. Definitely learned a lot of things I did not know or think of. Unfortunately, I wish I would have been more serious about this ~2 years ago. Heck even a year ago I would have been in a much better position to make the hop. It sounds like even if I did jump ship, I wouldn't gain much in terms of Captain upgrade times (based on this thread sounds like anyone hired next year and certainly into 2026 can expect long upgrade times). I'd also have to move my family (most likely ATL or SLC). I'm driving to work now, so it would certainly add some complexity to our lives to uproot everything (although not a deal breaker).

The pro/con list is always a good idea and I've made one on Excel and added a few things I didn't think of that came about from this thread. I'm not entirely sure what I'll do. It will be a gamble regardless of which way I go. Jumping ship now may add some more risk to the equation. If I'd done it 2 years ago it would have been an entirely different discussion. We will see...

Thanks again.

 

Really well written post. As someone who is also at SWA and still considering the jump to Delta or United, this is very helpful! Money isn’t everything…having options is often better.

 

How does UA's seniority/retirement compare to Delta? I haven't paid much attention to UA only cause I don't care to live in any of their bases (maybe Houston?).