Captain Upgrade Times?
10-27-2024 | 06:45 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
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From: UNA
FFS you are on the verge of holding 330A after 16 years.
for almost all of the past decade you could have been a CA but chose not to. It’s fine if that was what you chose to do, but stop acting like that was anything other than your choice.
for almost all of the past decade you could have been a CA but chose not to. It’s fine if that was what you chose to do, but stop acting like that was anything other than your choice.
10-27-2024 | 06:56 PM
#23
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Joined: Jun 2015
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You choosing to stay an FO loooong past your first opportunity, so that you would enter senior enough to reliably hold weekends and holidays off is not remotely the same thing as what is being discussed here.
Some folks act like 15 years is the norm. It's not. It may have been typical for a time, but that's what happens when you hire barely 1000 pilots in the 12 years following 9/11. That was due to a confluence of factors, including 9/11 furloughs, raising the age from 60>65, consolidation in the industry, and the 2008 housing/market crash. Compare that to the 11 years since then, where we have hired nearly 12000 pilots... Which period is closer to "the norm"?
Some folks act like 15 years is the norm. It's not. It may have been typical for a time, but that's what happens when you hire barely 1000 pilots in the 12 years following 9/11. That was due to a confluence of factors, including 9/11 furloughs, raising the age from 60>65, consolidation in the industry, and the 2008 housing/market crash. Compare that to the 11 years since then, where we have hired nearly 12000 pilots... Which period is closer to "the norm"?
10-28-2024 | 03:31 AM
#24
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Joined: Sep 2011
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All about perspective my friend. For all the reasons you listed, it most certainly took those of us hired in 2000-2001 that long to make and hold Captain. Just a fact. We didn't choose to wait to be top 20%. That's when our "wall" fell and that wall didn't include 7ER. It was B717 and M88 and, eventually, the B737 and A320. Categories will probably trend more senior now as hiring slows and aircraft get parked like the B717, A320 and B767. It's a cycle...but no one wants to believe that anymore. History is so last year and irrelevant. This industry is replete with booms and busts. We have been in an epic boom but that won't last. Things will slow...not necessarily precipitating a furlough but it will slow and maybe even regress through some contraction. It always has. Then maybe your "norm" will reset.
Similarly, those few who got the award while on probation is also abnormal. We have already seen “time” go back “up”.
As hiring slows to “average” rates for the last decade of ~1000/yr, the time it takes will naturally be longer (which is why many argue it’s a poor indicator, while % is much more stable). Even then, I suspect the % will settle a little senior to where it has been over most of the last 18 months. I’m guessing lower 80’s%. Ish.
10-28-2024 | 03:47 AM
#25
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,264
Likes: 106
From: DAL 330
Unless you specifically quantify it - "First upgrade available sytem wide" etc, upgrade times are somewhat subjective. Would a pilot living in SOCAL and waiting for the first available LAX upgrade be considered to be voluntarily skipping upgrade if he does not bid NYC?
Upgrade times are always changing but IMHO will start trending toward 5-10 years. If GS opportunities for senior FOs dry up it will be closer to 10 years. If GSs stay mostly available for senior FOs it will be closer to 5.
Plenty of senior FOs figure why go to the left seat and lose contol over your schedule if you are not going to make much more, or in some cases any more money?
Scoop
Upgrade times are always changing but IMHO will start trending toward 5-10 years. If GS opportunities for senior FOs dry up it will be closer to 10 years. If GSs stay mostly available for senior FOs it will be closer to 5.
Plenty of senior FOs figure why go to the left seat and lose contol over your schedule if you are not going to make much more, or in some cases any more money?
Scoop
10-28-2024 | 05:10 AM
#26
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Unless you specifically quantify it - "First upgrade available sytem wide" etc, upgrade times are somewhat subjective. Would a pilot living in SOCAL and waiting for the first available LAX upgrade be considered to be voluntarily skipping upgrade if he does not bid NYC?
Upgrade times are always changing but IMHO will start trending toward 5-10 years. If GS opportunities for senior FOs dry up it will be closer to 10 years. If GSs stay mostly available for senior FOs it will be closer to 5.
Plenty of senior FOs figure why go to the left seat and lose contol over your schedule if you are not going to make much more, or in some cases any more money?
Scoop
Upgrade times are always changing but IMHO will start trending toward 5-10 years. If GS opportunities for senior FOs dry up it will be closer to 10 years. If GSs stay mostly available for senior FOs it will be closer to 5.
Plenty of senior FOs figure why go to the left seat and lose contol over your schedule if you are not going to make much more, or in some cases any more money?
Scoop
QOL is in the left seat where you can bid 65hr line, make 20k and have 18-19 days off a month. Even in the 80% in category.
10-28-2024 | 05:50 AM
#27
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,342
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From: N60.4858 W149.9327
IMHO A thirty year career resulting in 15 years as an FO and 15 Years as a CA was a good career. I could have upgraded at 4 years but M88 plug NYC was not the QOL I wanted. The absolute earliest isn't always the most desireable. I finally went NBA at 12 years and was still well below my FO QOL. Thankfully things moved quickly after that. I made NBA money as an senior 7ERB working about as much with way more QOL control with buyoffs and GSs. Just one data point, but I thought I'd offer it up for those who want the left seat ASAP. That's really an emotional or ego decision rather than an earnings efficiencey and QOL decision but there's nothing wrong with that.
10-28-2024 | 05:54 AM
#28
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,523
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IMHO A thirty year career resulting in 15 years as an FO and 15 Years asa captain was a good career. I could have upgraded at 4 years but M88 plug NYC was not the QOL I wanted. The absolute earliest isn't always the most desireable. I finally went NBA at 12 years and was still well below my FO QOL. Thankfully things moved quickly after that. I made NBA money as an senior 7ERB working about as much with way more QOL control with buyoffs and GSs. Just one data point, but I thought i'd offer it up for those who want the left seat ASAP. That's really an emotional or ego decision rather than an earnings efficiencey and QOL decision but there's nothing wrong with that.
I chose NBA (now ERA) and make a little more than when I was hustling as a ER FO, but the 6 months I rolled thunder last year. Yeah. That paid for a lot of my new house.
10-28-2024 | 06:00 AM
#29
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,342
Likes: 829
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
For those of us with 20-25 years here (hired early 40s) it was a "do I play the game hard as a senior-ish ER FO, or just do 72 a month as a NBA"
I chose NBA (now ERA) and make a little more than when I was hustling as a ER FO, but the 6 months I rolled thunder last year. Yeah. That paid for a lot of my new house.
I chose NBA (now ERA) and make a little more than when I was hustling as a ER FO, but the 6 months I rolled thunder last year. Yeah. That paid for a lot of my new house.
But still... New Jersey?! :@
10-28-2024 | 08:13 AM
#30
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Joined: Apr 2020
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Likes: 2
Alimony...
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