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Old 08-08-2025 | 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
And what is the CA is not responding appropriately or at all
exactly….Or what if they see a high speed aircraft coming across 24L from the right in LAX?
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Old 08-08-2025 | 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cencal83406
Well if the manual doesn’t say the FO may do it, the FO better not do it. Captain has the sole responsibility.
yeah that’s not how that works…….CA has sole resposibilty to perform the Reject that’s different than saying something.
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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
yeah that’s not how that works…….CA has sole resposibilty to perform the Reject that’s different than saying something.
Something other than “reject.” This isn’t hard. That word should NEVER leave the FOs mouth.
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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:19 PM
  #344  
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Originally Posted by cencal83406
Something other than “reject.” This isn’t hard. That word should NEVER leave the FOs mouth.
you ever tried to say something as you see it happening? Doesn’t go well the brain turns to mush and you’re lucky to stutter something out.

if the FO sees a runway incursion happening what do you want them to say?

”excuse me Captain there appears to be an aircraft rapidly approaching from the right and I don’t believe it is going to stop…..”
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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
And what is the CA is not responding appropriately or at all
There is the two communication rule but RTO is a bit time sensitive.

This isn’t hard- it’s very clear. FOs do NOT take the controls from the CA and abort. It is the sole responsibility of the CA. Until they teach us otherwise the FO should do nothing other than call out a failure.

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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cencal83406
There is the two communication rule but RTO is a bit time sensitive.

This isn’t hard- it’s very clear. FOs do NOT take the controls from the CA and abort. It is the sole responsibility of the CA. Until they teach us otherwise the FO should do nothing other than call out a failure.
you are saying two different things in every post of course the FO doesn’t take the controls from the CA. That’s the exact discussion we have been having for 10 pages.

It seems you are trying to be difficult on purpose so I’ll just move along…..
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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
you ever tried to say something as you see it happening? Doesn’t go well the brain turns to mush and you’re lucky to stutter something out.

if the FO sees a runway incursion happening what do you want them to say?

”excuse me Captain there appears to be an aircraft rapidly approaching from the right and I don’t believe it is going to stop…..”
We aren’t talking about anything other than standard abort criteria, or as we affectionately call them the four horsemen. Fire failure fear or shear.

but to answer your tangential hypothetical, as long as the FO doesn’t say abort (since that’s a CA only phrase), they can call out anything else they feel necessary to aid the CA in making his decision.
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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
you are saying two different things in every post of course the FO doesn’t take the controls from the CA. That’s the exact discussion we have been having for 10 pages.

It seems you are trying to be difficult on purpose so I’ll just move along…..
Sorry my apologies. The FO shall not cal out abort. Period dot. The only person who calls abort is the one who either completes the maneuver or subsequently states “I have the controls” and completes the maneuver.
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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cencal83406
There is the two communication rule but RTO is a bit time sensitive.

This isn’t hard- it’s very clear. FOs do NOT take the controls from the CA and abort. It is the sole responsibility of the CA. Until they teach us otherwise the FO should do nothing other than call out a failure.
This is just far too black and white. Captain incapacitation was taught as part of my newhire IQ at Delta during the 300 series (and in very recent years.) I actually received praise by the instructor for my performance as a slumped-over captain in an FO/FO pairing during a high-speed reject, for which the PF/FO aborted.
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Old 08-08-2025 | 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Verdell
This is just far too black and white. Captain incapacitation was taught as part of my IQ at Delta. I actually received praise by the instructor for my performance as a slumped-over captain in an FO/FO pairing during a high-speed reject, for which the FO aborted.
Different era I guess. The only incap training we’ve discussed is the two communication rule.

you think if they really wanted FOs to overrule a CA decision they wouldn’t do FO abort training? Once for the type and never again.
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