Delta 56 Severe Turbulence
08-09-2025 | 09:53 AM
#371
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,540
Likes: 506
First, your argument does not apply because in all of those scenarios, the FO isn't flying then suddenly handing the controls to the captain to accomplish the landing portion of a Cat3. And a FO doesn't ever land or take off in lower than standard visual conditions. It makes sense not to certify them to autoland in lower than standard conditions purely from a training cost perspective.
It does not take additional training (a week, really?) to know the criteria on an RTO. FOs already accomplish 90% of the maneuver. By the time the captain takes control during an RTO, the vast majority of the maneuver is already accomplished. Every FO should already know the abort criteria. I know I do.
It does not take additional training (a week, really?) to know the criteria on an RTO. FOs already accomplish 90% of the maneuver. By the time the captain takes control during an RTO, the vast majority of the maneuver is already accomplished. Every FO should already know the abort criteria. I know I do.
"Abort"
,
,
Watches the FO maintain centerline
,
,
"I have the aircraft"
Those are almost as benign as the low speed regime.
If I were setting policy, the captain would take control at taxi speed unless intervention was required for proper directional control and braking. The PM Captain is in a better position to note the abort speed, verify spoilers and verify auto brakes because they are already cross checking the instruments while the PF FO is primarily looking outside during the takeoff and already maintaining directional control. Transfer of control at high speed during an abort is just adding risk.
08-09-2025 | 10:12 AM
#372
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,481
Likes: 1,055
99% of the disagreement and discussion about RTO could be resolved with a clearly established plan for transfer of control. I've trained with some Captains where "Abort, I have the aircraft" is one syllable and they are hamfisting the controls before they finish speaking. Those are scary high speed aborts. I've trained with others where the pacing is
"Abort"
,
,
Watches the FO maintain centerline
,
,
"I have the aircraft"
Those are almost as benign as the low speed regime.
If I were setting policy, the captain would take control at taxi speed unless intervention was required for proper directional control and braking. The PM Captain is in a better position to note the abort speed, verify spoilers and verify auto brakes because they are already cross checking the instruments while the PF FO is primarily looking outside during the takeoff and already maintaining directional control. Transfer of control at high speed during an abort is just adding risk.
"Abort"
,
,
Watches the FO maintain centerline
,
,
"I have the aircraft"
Those are almost as benign as the low speed regime.
If I were setting policy, the captain would take control at taxi speed unless intervention was required for proper directional control and braking. The PM Captain is in a better position to note the abort speed, verify spoilers and verify auto brakes because they are already cross checking the instruments while the PF FO is primarily looking outside during the takeoff and already maintaining directional control. Transfer of control at high speed during an abort is just adding risk.
08-09-2025 | 11:24 AM
#373
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 280
99% of the disagreement and discussion about RTO could be resolved with a clearly established plan for transfer of control. I've trained with some Captains where "Abort, I have the aircraft" is one syllable and they are hamfisting the controls before they finish speaking. Those are scary high speed aborts. I've trained with others where the pacing is
"Abort"
,
,
Watches the FO maintain centerline
,
,
"I have the aircraft"
Those are almost as benign as the low speed regime.
If I were setting policy, the captain would take control at taxi speed unless intervention was required for proper directional control and braking. The PM Captain is in a better position to note the abort speed, verify spoilers and verify auto brakes because they are already cross checking the instruments while the PF FO is primarily looking outside during the takeoff and already maintaining directional control. Transfer of control at high speed during an abort is just adding risk.
"Abort"
,
,
Watches the FO maintain centerline
,
,
"I have the aircraft"
Those are almost as benign as the low speed regime.
If I were setting policy, the captain would take control at taxi speed unless intervention was required for proper directional control and braking. The PM Captain is in a better position to note the abort speed, verify spoilers and verify auto brakes because they are already cross checking the instruments while the PF FO is primarily looking outside during the takeoff and already maintaining directional control. Transfer of control at high speed during an abort is just adding risk.
08-09-2025 | 02:35 PM
#374
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,041
Likes: 191
I remember being an FO getting all spun up about this reject decision and who gets to call it.
Everyone needs to relax, follow the guidance the company has given us to execute the abort. Do you really think Flight Ops has this policy because they are just stubborn and don't want to give FO's more control? Seriously? Relax. You'll be in the captains seat soon enough arguing against the points you are making today.
It isn't a hit against your ego and no one is saying you aren't ace of the base and can make those decisions. We get it. You guys rock and you keep us out of trouble ALL THE TIME, but the reject policy is what it is because of past incidents and accidents.
Everyone needs to relax, follow the guidance the company has given us to execute the abort. Do you really think Flight Ops has this policy because they are just stubborn and don't want to give FO's more control? Seriously? Relax. You'll be in the captains seat soon enough arguing against the points you are making today.
It isn't a hit against your ego and no one is saying you aren't ace of the base and can make those decisions. We get it. You guys rock and you keep us out of trouble ALL THE TIME, but the reject policy is what it is because of past incidents and accidents.
08-09-2025 | 05:07 PM
#378
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,481
Likes: 1,055
08-09-2025 | 05:13 PM
#379
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
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