Contract 2026
10-19-2025 | 04:49 AM
#471
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 68
10-19-2025 | 04:51 AM
#472
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 68
Good question about the 717 bid packet and why it was excluded (along with the 220). As I’m not on the fleets, I didn’t pay enough attention to those details. I’ll bet SK would know though.In the end, some changes may be worth the impacts to the bid package. But we need to genuinely understand this second and third order effects before rallying folks to the cause, IMO. It’s just so complicated, that it’s almost impossible for the masses to truly grasp it all. But I do feel strongly that raising ADG, especially all the way to 6:00, would have a ton of negative and unwanted consequences. That’s if we could even negotiate it in the first place.
10-19-2025 | 04:59 AM
#473
Bent over by buybacks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 588
Someone has to fly the 6am bank. They can’t just add a bunch more flights and make massive schedule changes because of a change to pilot pay. I don’t think you’d see much of a change in trips starting early. Flight schedules aren’t going to change. It is impossible to just start all trips in the early morning push.
they’d also probably want ALV/TLV relief
Last edited by StoneQOLdCrazy; 10-19-2025 at 05:25 AM.
10-19-2025 | 06:15 AM
#474
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 195
if that’s what you want, bid a WB.
I think you are a couple standard deviations away from the mean, begging for 20 hr three day domestic trips.
Increasing pilot efficiency = fewer pilot jobs required.
Increasing trip difficulty = more fatigue calls and more failure points in execution. And mgmt won’t want to pay the EDP longer days generate. Or they’ll ask to eliminate EDP in exchange for a higher ADG. No thanks.
So the company likely isn’t interested. The pilots shouldn’t want it, either.
I’m with CX500, raise the value if vacation and training to 5:15.
I think you are a couple standard deviations away from the mean, begging for 20 hr three day domestic trips.
Increasing pilot efficiency = fewer pilot jobs required.
Increasing trip difficulty = more fatigue calls and more failure points in execution. And mgmt won’t want to pay the EDP longer days generate. Or they’ll ask to eliminate EDP in exchange for a higher ADG. No thanks.
So the company likely isn’t interested. The pilots shouldn’t want it, either.
I’m with CX500, raise the value if vacation and training to 5:15.
10-19-2025 | 06:20 AM
#475
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 195
Someone has to fly the 6am bank. They can’t just add a bunch more flights and make massive schedule changes because of a change to pilot pay. I don’t think you’d see much of a change in trips starting early. Flight schedules aren’t going to change. It is impossible to just start all trips in the early morning push.
I know plenty of locals who bid late reports early releases too, it’s wouldn’t just be a commuter problem. Think 6am shows for the pilot with a 2 hour drive to work and waiting on the employee bus.
Not saying it will happen this way, but be careful what you wish for is a saying for a reason.
10-19-2025 | 06:25 AM
#476
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,484
Likes: 1,060
That’s not true at all. They absolutely can switch to more of an AM only or PM only schedule with max block a day. I don’t know why people think that they will not switch rotation construction. Remember in the not so distant past where some of the NYC categories were in the single digit % of commutability? Now apply that company wide.
I know plenty of locals who bid late reports early releases too, it’s wouldn’t just be a commuter problem. Think 6am shows for the pilot with a 2 hour drive to work and waiting on the employee bus.
Not saying it will happen this way, but be careful what you wish for is a saying for a reason.
I know plenty of locals who bid late reports early releases too, it’s wouldn’t just be a commuter problem. Think 6am shows for the pilot with a 2 hour drive to work and waiting on the employee bus.
Not saying it will happen this way, but be careful what you wish for is a saying for a reason.
10-19-2025 | 06:27 AM
#477
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 640
From: NYC 7ERA
As one of those 2-ish hour prior to report leave the house guys, either before 6 or after 10 report.
Getting home, either by 1400 or after 1900.
55 miles JFK to house can be anywhere from 50 minutes to 3 hour depending on time of day.
Getting home, either by 1400 or after 1900.
55 miles JFK to house can be anywhere from 50 minutes to 3 hour depending on time of day.
10-19-2025 | 06:43 AM
#478
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,233
Likes: 1,199
I’m not advocating for 6:00. I’m not saying the company would jump at it, nor that they’d never go for it. What I AM saying is that IF - big IF - we even COULD raise the ADG to 6:00, the vast majority of pilots would hate the bid packet trips. And I’m also saying you cannot cherry pick an individual example to say “look, wouldn’t it be great if this trip paid more”, because it’s nowhere near that simple. These changes would be propagated across every trip, with more legs/day, more block/day, shorter layovers, less commutability, as only a few examples. There is zero -ZERO - chance these things wouldn’t get worse.
Some of you may love the idea nevertheless. That’s your right. But the vast majority of pilots would hate the QOL hit with a 6:00 ADG.
Last edited by FangsF15; 10-19-2025 at 06:54 AM.
10-19-2025 | 07:39 AM
#479
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 121
Every contractual change particularly with scheduling and rotation construction, just like the laws of physics, has an equal and opposite reaction.
Be careful what you ask for. There is always a consequence. some bigger than others.
Be careful what you ask for. There is always a consequence. some bigger than others.
10-19-2025 | 08:00 AM
#480
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,248
Likes: 707
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
I think we need to refine the current system rather than blow it up and start anew with no known historical norms or expectations. To that end...
1) increase pay and credit items to ADG (5:15) and true credit during the month vacation, training etc.
2) lower GS trigger to ALV -15 (to allow everyone to GS up to a 5 day)
3) shorten EDP trigger time to an 8 hour work day
4) Make "pay and credit" items pay above guarantee for RES
5) increase SCC to 2(+) for all instances
6) reduce FSB deposit trigger to ALV
1) increase pay and credit items to ADG (5:15) and true credit during the month vacation, training etc.
2) lower GS trigger to ALV -15 (to allow everyone to GS up to a 5 day)
3) shorten EDP trigger time to an 8 hour work day
4) Make "pay and credit" items pay above guarantee for RES
5) increase SCC to 2(+) for all instances
6) reduce FSB deposit trigger to ALV
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