It simply depends on the opener. If it’s in the zone of reasonableness I suspect you all will be able to knock it out in a year if not on-time. You can be back at the table working on the next contract in 3 years. You will also have by that point lifted AA, UAL and SWA up. Management is more concerned what they pay you relative to the competition than the actual rates. That becomes a huge help on the next contract.
If the opener is like 2019 management will sit on it until time has once again worked its magic. You will end up with about the same give or take however the next bite of the apple will be delayed 3 to 4 years. I have zero doubt which strategy puts more money in pilot pockets.

 

The PS change in contract 2012 reduced potential profit sharing about 1.9% in years with a profit. It was however exchanged for a 2% pay raise that has compounded into about 4% now. I agree it’s arguable to say the rates might be where they are today had we not received the extra 2%. No way to really know. Since every other airline other than SWA patterned bargained off the 2012 rates it’s reasonable to think it’s still in the rates today at some level.
What other parts of contract 2012 due you feel were concessionary?

 

I don't think the mediator has that kind of power. They are not an arbitrator that can force anything. They certainly can put pressure on the NC to give 'something' to the company, but I highly doubt they will lean on that one little nuance (in the big scheme of things). And they certainly aren't going to 'ice' us over EDP.

We may have to agree to disagree on the degree to which negotiations are likely to go past amendable. I think it's certainly possible they will go past amenable date, but not dragging on 2-3+ years. We'll know more in about 8 months, once openers are exchanged (in April?) plus a couple months. We are in a great negotiating position. The economy is stable, the company is back to printing money, and the company has no argument they 'need' anything from us. especially since they are in a better position than when EDP was first negotiated.

Personally, I think notification is going to be a gatekeeper issue for the company. I think they are going to demand to have automated notification for (possibly) anything. They will claim the technology is there. I put that on my survey. IF we cave on notification (which I genuinely hope we do not), it better be a massive quid in return.

No concessions

 

There is zero reason to go backwards in any area of our contract. The company is making billions of dollars a year in profits. Waaaaa, EDP and RR pay means they're not profiting billions + XX millions more.

 

They could save more money just automating trip assignments and following the contract. I wonder how many millions they expend in 23m7 monthly.

 

Scope. Increases large regional jets allowed. There was more. I remember voting no and being disappointed that it passed. Also remember voting no to TA1. I was starting to think I was a permanent no voter, but then I voted yes on next two TA’s.

 

We did increase the number of large regional jets. However we reduced the total number of regional jets and got a commitment to purchase a large number of 100 seat jets. Jets this forum assured us would never show up. Seen a 717 or A220-100 lately? That’s what you call a win-win solution. We voted differently, I voted for 2012, against TA1, for TA2 and against contract 2019.

 

A very strange world you live in where C12 and TA2 are, in your mind, better than C19. lol.

 

In terms of the position of the airline at the time and the relative pay rates with the competition they were better. 2012 was also on time. Again that is a huge factor in pushing compensation up at the quickest rate. You have to pull the competition up with you. I suspect on a percentage inflation basis they were also both worth more than contract 2019 which was a 7 year agreement covering the highest inflation years over the previous 30.

 

C19 needs to have a huge asterisk next to it. Claiming it was a 7 year agreement is an insufficient description. Covid had a massive, massive impact on the timing of it.

Further, I submit it is the most popular contract since at least C2000.