MOU 25-05
#2031
Another delusional take.
#2033
How long have you been here? I've been here since the late 90s. Unlike now (and we do have a good management team--overall) our management then was pretty terrible. And I am not talking about labor issues, I am talking about day to day operational leadership, both from a flight ops and overall airline perspective. We proudly had horrible looking airplanes with paint peeling off them, multiple generations of liveries (also known to line pilots as paint jobs), and of course if pilots, who despite everything, want to be proud of the company we have hitched our career to, mentioned this, the knee-jerk reply was always, "we can't afford to take these planes out of revenue service, you pilots just shut up and color, and fly, don't tell us how to do our job." We proudly never ran the APU, and baked our passengers in the back, severely ****ing them off "to save fuel you know." Worst of all, we had a terrible revenue department that took a perverse glee in building a network schedule that required more aircraft than we owned--all to supposedly "maximize revenue." Then, every day, we would proactively cancel a bunch of flights, enraging our most important passengers.
And of course, if pilots ever brought this up, "you pilots just fly planes and don't tell us how to do our job" was the canned response.
All this was accompanied by a huge bout of hubris--until we started hitting some turbulence even before 9/11. As we approached BK our revenue per passenger trailed the industry--that's what happens when you run a bad operation.
Richard Anderson crushed that dysfunctional mindset. Amazingly, we managed to get the entire, post-merger fleet painted in record time, and for the first time in 15 years, sometime around 2010, we finally had a fleet with the same paint scheme across the board. We abandoned the arrogant, and dysfunctional model of overscheduling flights to "maximize revenue" (at the expense of long term goodwill and loss of customers) and somehow managed to NOT cancel a bunch of flights.
I am starting to see the same management hubris now as I did then. Yes, we are making a lot of money TODAY, but assuming that will last forever is the first step into ensuring that it will not.
And of course, if pilots ever brought this up, "you pilots just fly planes and don't tell us how to do our job" was the canned response.
All this was accompanied by a huge bout of hubris--until we started hitting some turbulence even before 9/11. As we approached BK our revenue per passenger trailed the industry--that's what happens when you run a bad operation.
Richard Anderson crushed that dysfunctional mindset. Amazingly, we managed to get the entire, post-merger fleet painted in record time, and for the first time in 15 years, sometime around 2010, we finally had a fleet with the same paint scheme across the board. We abandoned the arrogant, and dysfunctional model of overscheduling flights to "maximize revenue" (at the expense of long term goodwill and loss of customers) and somehow managed to NOT cancel a bunch of flights.
I am starting to see the same management hubris now as I did then. Yes, we are making a lot of money TODAY, but assuming that will last forever is the first step into ensuring that it will not.
I think 2026 will be the international growth year that 2025 was supposed to be. Glen leaving and Ed planning his exit/successorship means we are potentially headed to the past were none of the up and coming C suiters have any experience. The biggest threat isn't IROPs because we have the template to correct that and a little money will go a long way to fortify the brand by stabilizing the operation. The threat is a change in mindset that returns us to the 1990s philosophy of route dominance over brand image. The company is a consumer brand now not an industry tenth player trying to build a network and out wit rival operators.
The industry has matured into a healthy competitive balanced stable system of transportation. Yes, the IROPs need to be addressed but what built this company into what it is today is market rationalization and a focus on profitability over route dominance at all cost. The next leadership team will have a "vision" for Delta and I hope it's more of the same and not world domination through reckless money losing routes for routes sake. United has a larger international operation and there is room for us to smartly open and compete in some of those areas, especially in the pacific but we can't lose sight of what has made this company an industry leader. That is brand and revenue management. The financial side of the house has and will dominated and direct our future. Yes, operations need to improve especially IROP recovery but that's the easy fix with manpower, equipment availability and maintenance touches. The harder part is revenue management and the discipline to stay the course as a consumer brand and manage for profitability versus a new (old) vision of dominating an industry through rapid expansion and market share.
Last edited by notEnuf; 01-03-2026 at 07:38 AM.
#2034
Stick to Austin pilot base gooning, please.
#2035
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 279
Likes: 181
If "move heaven and hell" means burning the furniture, you're absolutely right. How long until they run out of furniture to feed the fire?
#2036
#2037
Once upon a time WS didn't use ARCOS and before that GS were manual and we had no ARCOS. The only reason for ARCOS was to reduce staffing in scheduling and automate a process that took scheduling manpower. Call each GS holder and ask is they are available for the trip. Green slips and IAs were once very rare and when they became more prevalent management wanted a lower workload system. Originally it was for GS and then WS were added and now my guess is they will negotiate to make it the default and try to move manual coverage to 8 hours and 23M7 everything uncovered at that point via ARCOS and QS.
First, pre-2018, we had far less open time because trips were constructed with better buffers. Things simply broke less. Fewer broken trips, no rational fatigue policy, and far fewer rerotues.
Second, when they called you, they weren't proffers. Yea, same argument about IAs, and yea, there was some percentage of pilot group playing the game, but the fact of the matter is if someone called, a large percentage of the pilot group was going to take the trip, so it was a game of odds, and the odds were better then that someone would just take the trip. Truth is, there were substantially fewer GS, so people not only jumped on what was offered, people hoovered up open time at straight pay. Very few trips ran the gauntlet of open time to make it to GS.
Third, once inside 3 hours, there was no 10 minute window. They rolled calls until they found someone to take the trip, or someone senior called back.
The fact is, at this level of open time, you're not going to cover it in any reasonable amount of time with either a manual or automatic process, unless you go to a UAL system where it is first come first serve, and I'm really pretty sure none of us wants that. This problem needs to be solved a different way.
#2038
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,553
Likes: 100
From: Road construction signholder
The fact is, at this level of open time, you're not going to cover it in any reasonable amount of time with either a manual or automatic process, unless you go to a UAL system where it is first come first serve, and I'm really pretty sure none of us wants that. This problem needs to be solved a different way.
#2039
This keeps getting repeated by a few, but it really doesn't mean its relevant any longer.
First, pre-2018, we had far less open time because trips were constructed with better buffers. Things simply broke less. Fewer broken trips, no rational fatigue policy, and far fewer rerotues.
Second, when they called you, they weren't proffers. Yea, same argument about IAs, and yea, there was some percentage of pilot group playing the game, but the fact of the matter is if someone called, a large percentage of the pilot group was going to take the trip, so it was a game of odds, and the odds were better then that someone would just take the trip. Truth is, there were substantially fewer GS, so people not only jumped on what was offered, people hoovered up open time at straight pay. Very few trips ran the gauntlet of open time to make it to GS.
Third, once inside 3 hours, there was no 10 minute window. They rolled calls until they found someone to take the trip, or someone senior called back.
The fact is, at this level of open time, you're not going to cover it in any reasonable amount of time with either a manual or automatic process, unless you go to a UAL system where it is first come first serve, and I'm really pretty sure none of us wants that. This problem needs to be solved a different way.
First, pre-2018, we had far less open time because trips were constructed with better buffers. Things simply broke less. Fewer broken trips, no rational fatigue policy, and far fewer rerotues.
Second, when they called you, they weren't proffers. Yea, same argument about IAs, and yea, there was some percentage of pilot group playing the game, but the fact of the matter is if someone called, a large percentage of the pilot group was going to take the trip, so it was a game of odds, and the odds were better then that someone would just take the trip. Truth is, there were substantially fewer GS, so people not only jumped on what was offered, people hoovered up open time at straight pay. Very few trips ran the gauntlet of open time to make it to GS.
Third, once inside 3 hours, there was no 10 minute window. They rolled calls until they found someone to take the trip, or someone senior called back.
The fact is, at this level of open time, you're not going to cover it in any reasonable amount of time with either a manual or automatic process, unless you go to a UAL system where it is first come first serve, and I'm really pretty sure none of us wants that. This problem needs to be solved a different way.
#2040
This keeps getting repeated by a few, but it really doesn't mean its relevant any longer.
First, pre-2018, we had far less open time because trips were constructed with better buffers. Things simply broke less. Fewer broken trips, no rational fatigue policy, and far fewer rerotues.
Second, when they called you, they weren't proffers. Yea, same argument about IAs, and yea, there was some percentage of pilot group playing the game, but the fact of the matter is if someone called, a large percentage of the pilot group was going to take the trip, so it was a game of odds, and the odds were better then that someone would just take the trip. Truth is, there were substantially fewer GS, so people not only jumped on what was offered, people hoovered up open time at straight pay. Very few trips ran the gauntlet of open time to make it to GS.
Third, once inside 3 hours, there was no 10 minute window. They rolled calls until they found someone to take the trip, or someone senior called back.
The fact is, at this level of open time, you're not going to cover it in any reasonable amount of time with either a manual or automatic process, unless you go to a UAL system where it is first come first serve, and I'm really pretty sure none of us wants that. This problem needs to be solved a different way.
First, pre-2018, we had far less open time because trips were constructed with better buffers. Things simply broke less. Fewer broken trips, no rational fatigue policy, and far fewer rerotues.
Second, when they called you, they weren't proffers. Yea, same argument about IAs, and yea, there was some percentage of pilot group playing the game, but the fact of the matter is if someone called, a large percentage of the pilot group was going to take the trip, so it was a game of odds, and the odds were better then that someone would just take the trip. Truth is, there were substantially fewer GS, so people not only jumped on what was offered, people hoovered up open time at straight pay. Very few trips ran the gauntlet of open time to make it to GS.
Third, once inside 3 hours, there was no 10 minute window. They rolled calls until they found someone to take the trip, or someone senior called back.
The fact is, at this level of open time, you're not going to cover it in any reasonable amount of time with either a manual or automatic process, unless you go to a UAL system where it is first come first serve, and I'm really pretty sure none of us wants that. This problem needs to be solved a different way.
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